Will paratroopers become more useful?

The Tollan

Prince
Joined
Oct 29, 2005
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Paratroopers seem to be of quite limited utility at present.

Has anyone seen what the stats of this unit will be with the expansion?

It appears that a large amount of units will have their stats altered with the expansion. It seems likely that paratroopers will have more than 40 strength (though a lot of other units will probably see increases also).
 
I hope so, that or maybe the civ 3 route could be taken? Civ 3 had both paratroopers and modern paratroopers. I find the problem with paratroopers not that their 40 strength is terrible, but rather that it becomes terrible not much farther along in the tech tree.
 
Yes, it does seem to be problematic that paratroopers come as early as they do (the same technology as bombers, which upgrade to stealth bombers).

I agree that adding a late game modern paratrooper (or possibly some type of special forces unit that paratroopers can upgrade to) would be a very good way to resolve this issue.
 
Well paratroopers have a fairly limited utility in real life. They're not really supposed to conquer cities on their own, they just support the main invasion force and interdict/harass the enemy.
 
Eh, I played through a modern game where I conquered an entire contenent with three paratroopers and a bunch of bombers (because the enemy pre-emptively struck at my fleet) (And ICBM's, thank god for Autocratic Russia). I don't think they're not useful, rather there are more useful forces to use at that point of the game.
 
Paratroopers should be a promotion (like marine) for infantry units only. Make flight a prerequisite and make it a 3tier promotion.

I strongly dislike how the modern era has far different unit types than any of the others. Creates a lot of clutter, useless unit and makes the AI do crazy things like spam AA guns.
 
In the modern era (starting with WWII), paratroopers were not a specialized version of regular army troops. Whether they were part of the American, British, German (or other) nation, almost all paratroops were an elite corps that was almost completely outside the organization of regular army troops.

Unlike machine guns or other support units, the airborne actually were organized into separate divisions from the regular army.

If you think that paratroops have limited utility in the current structure (and I agree), get ready for even more "useless" modern infantry types, including Marines and WWII Infantry. One can only hope that the time scale of the late game has been extended to make these extra troop types meaningful. But regardless, complaining that the late game already has superfluous units -- when we know we're getting even more -- seem pointless.
 
Playing as the USA with B52s and Paratroopers is pretty powerful in my experience. In general I agree though they are a bit useless and short lived.
 
If this game does embrace WW-1 style domination of the defensive line with machine guns and such, then I do see a proper role laid out for paratroopers :)
 
If this game does embrace WW-1 style domination of the defensive line with machine guns and such, then I do see a proper role laid out for paratroopers :)

If they can get the AI to properly fortify in along a defensive line making proper use of terrain and defence in depth then I'll eat my own shoes. Then I'll go and enjoy the new AI ;)
 
As of now I mainly send my Paratroopers in to pillage the enemy's resources, destroy roads or as a way to slow the enemy down.(ZoC) I find them pretty usefull. Sadly I have never seen the AI actually drop them behind my lines or use them effectively. Hopefully GnK can make the AI use them more effectively.
 
Just remove the penalty from not enable to enter combat mode after dropped

Yeah verry usefull lets drop my unit to his death.
 
Just remove the penalty from not enable to enter combat mode after dropped

Yeah verry usefull lets drop my unit to his death.

Well drop para on a hill next to a unit and fortify it. If you charged in with another infantry from the ground you'd be in the same hill tile but not fortified.

But I can't deny that being able to attack after drop would make them really useful. However I don't want the AI to use that, as they'd snipe your great people and ranged units/artillery all day long with their unit/para spam.

Now the real problem of the Paratrooper:
Mech Infantry and Tanks are available at the very same time. No point in building a Paratrooper if I got other very mobile units with 50% more strength. Compared to other Infantry (movement 2) the Paratrooper would actually be really useful.
Hopefully there will be a bit larger gap (meaning the mech infantry and tanks coming into play later) with G&K.
 
On one map I played, America was on the other side of an expansive mountain range with only two passes, both some distance from my cities. This was one of the few times I actually found paratroopers useful as I could just drop them in real quick after nuking Boston and back them up with some helicopters. Eventually my tanks and mech. infantry conga-lined their ways in and helped push for the capital after Boston was taken.
 
The experience I have had lately, is that the AI dropped two units of paratroopers near a city I had just captured. They managed to take it back, but succumbed to very heavy arty fire from me the next turn. One paratrooper was decimated the other I hit in the flank with a tank. They were massacred it reminded me of the movie A Bridge too Far.

The paratroopers should be able to take an hold an objective after landing. That is the whole point of having paratroopers. To drop behind enemy lines and destroy or hold objectives until reinforcements arrive.

What I would do is allow them to attack after landing, so they can quickly take an objective, but give them a 50% defense bonus only for the following turn, as if they are in fortress. That way they have a chance to hold a place until you reinforce them. These guys are tough and they know how to hold a position, but they cannot do so forever. Operation Market Garden proved that all too well. On the other hand the 101st Airborne Division held out in Bastogne, but because Patton got to them in a nick of time.
 
If you think that paratroops have limited utility in the current structure (and I agree), get ready for even more "useless" modern infantry types, including Marines and WWII Infantry. One can only hope that the time scale of the late game has been extended to make these extra troop types meaningful.

WW II Infantry look like they might be an upgrade to Great War Infantry. If WW II Infantry are the standard infantry unit of the time that they become available then they should be reasonably useful, if the stats are balanced.

The Marine unit, if it is too reliant on a small niche like the Paratrooper, could easily end up being superfluous though.
 
They could give paratroopers survivalism 1 and 2 promotions. Survivalism is for Recon units though. They would need to make an extra promotion specifically for paratroopers. That would make them tough and they should be. They are elite troops. Do that and increase their cost and you would have a worthwhile unit again. You could give them Drill 1 and Shock 1. They have to get a bit of a bonus, more than standard infantry.
 
In the modern era (starting with WWII), paratroopers were not a specialized version of regular army troops. Whether they were part of the American, British, German (or other) nation, almost all paratroops were an elite corps that was almost completely outside the organization of regular army troops.

Unlike machine guns or other support units, the airborne actually were organized into separate divisions from the regular army.

If you think that paratroops have limited utility in the current structure (and I agree), get ready for even more "useless" modern infantry types, including Marines and WWII Infantry. One can only hope that the time scale of the late game has been extended to make these extra troop types meaningful. But regardless, complaining that the late game already has superfluous units -- when we know we're getting even more -- seem pointless.


But surely the best way to represent elite units is to make a normal unit that requires a lot of experience, rather than just another unit that I can spam as I want.
I know paratroopers were put into separate divisions (not much point having only half a unit be paratrooped), but I don't see how promotions go against that. It just represents that division being trained (and having the infrastructure) to paradrop; just like cover is units being trained to advance under ranged fire (and being given larger shields).

And I agree with you that I am afraid of too many units being added - marines being one of them. Just add an amphibious promotion which neglects penalties when attacking from the sea.
 
Well drop para on a hill next to a unit and fortify it. If you charged in with another infantry from the ground you'd be in the same hill tile but not fortified.

But I can't deny that being able to attack after drop would make them really useful. However I don't want the AI to use that, as they'd snipe your great people and ranged units/artillery all day long with their unit/para spam.

Now the real problem of the Paratrooper:
Mech Infantry and Tanks are available at the very same time. No point in building a Paratrooper if I got other very mobile units with 50% more strength. Compared to other Infantry (movement 2) the Paratrooper would actually be really useful.
Hopefully there will be a bit larger gap (meaning the mech infantry and tanks coming into play later) with G&K.

Yes they should make paratroopers available earlier only problem is historicly they are in the same era as world war 2
units
 
There already is an Amphibious promotion.
 
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