Wind/Nuclear/Solar/Hydro Plant ideas

Aren't we over complicating this a little? I quite like Mad Madigan's idea, we could just change the flat :c5greatperson: into a % for specific :c5greatperson: Great People, right? I very much like the idea of :tourism: on River tiles, that sounds great!
 
I like the idea of a power strategic resource, but Wind Plants should boost all non-forested land tiles instead of just grassland/plains.
 
I like the idea of a power strategic resource, but Wind Plants should boost all non-forested land tiles instead of just grassland/plains.
But this way, you have incentives to use Nuclear Plants in non-grassland/plains areas.
 
Another thought, should we look at more percentile yields.

Nuclear is attractive because the 50% is one the best multipliers you ever get in the game.

Should hydro be 20% culture, wind 20% science (or something).
 
Or, since these are really late buildings, and people are kinda running out of things to build at that point, what if the plants gave a massive boost to processes?

ie, maybe all Plants give a decent flat :c5production: boost, but they also give +100%:c5production: when working any process, or maybe certain plants boost certain processes? (+100% to :c5gold: wealth process for Hydro, +100% to :c5science: research process for Nuclear, etc.)

If you give +100%:c5production: to processes, that effectively increases process yield conversion from 25% => 50%
After sleeping on it, I would rather something like that as a baseline plants boost, rather than a GP steroid.
 
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I'm not sure how much we should specialize the different buildings in terms of each giving different important late-game yields, particularly science and culture which are directly relevant for winning at that point. These end up potentially being the difference between winning or losing a science victory because one civ started with a bunch of rivers and another didn't (just an example).
 
I'm not sure how much we should specialize the different buildings in terms of each giving different important late-game yields, particularly science and culture which are directly relevant for winning at that point. These end up potentially being the difference between winning or losing a science victory because one civ started with a bunch of rivers and another didn't (just an example).

I agree. Personally I think terrain decisions are made way too early in the game to suddenly become a thing again right at the end. If we make the plants strong, different, and terrain dependent...I think that forces a players hand at a point in the game when they don't really have a choice of what terrain they are on.

I'm still a fan of Hydro/Wind being the same thing...but Hydro costs no strategic while wind costs aluminum. Similar to Nuclear/Solar. The River is not more powerful, but it does give you a cost break...which to me is fine.

If that is too much...than I go back to I see no need to have two plants.
 
I agree. Personally I think terrain decisions are made way too early in the game to suddenly become a thing again right at the end. If we make the plants strong, different, and terrain dependent...I think that forces a players hand at a point in the game when they don't really have a choice of what terrain they are on.
That's why I advocated for making plant types with nearly total tile coverage. Yes, you should be able to take the plant that's right for you, so let's make them:
  • Hydro Plant (Requires Aluminum, City must be on a River):
    • +100%:c5production: Production towards Processes
    • 2 Specialists no longer produce :c5unhappy:Urbanization Unhappiness.
    • +5 :c5production:, +2 :c5production::c5gold::c5food: on every River and Lake tile
  • Wind Plant (Requires Aluminum):
    • +100%:c5production: Production towards Processes
    • 2 Specialists no longer produce :c5unhappy:Urbanization Unhappiness.
    • +5 :c5production:, +1 :c5production::c5gold::c5science: on every tile
  • Nuclear Plant (Requires Uranium):
    • +100%:c5production: Production towards Processes
    • 2 Specialists no longer produce :c5unhappy:Urbanization Unhappiness.
    • +10 :c5production:, +33%:c5production:
    • On Completion, 5% of the :c5production: Cost of Buildings from the Modern Era or Later are converted into :c5greatperson:GEngineer and :c5greatperson:GScientist points
  • Solar Plant (Requires Aluminum, City must be on or next to Desert):
    • +100%:c5production: Production towards Processes
    • 2 Specialists no longer produce :c5unhappy:Urbanization Unhappiness.
    • +5 :c5production:, +10%:c5production:, +2:c5production::c5science: on every Desert tile
  • Tidal Plant (Requires Aluminum, City must be on Coast)
    • Unlocked at Ecology (same tech as Solar Plant)
    • +100%:c5production: Production towards Processes
    • 2 Specialists no longer produce :c5unhappy:Urbanization Unhappiness.
    • +10 :c5production:, +2 :c5production::c5culture: on every Coast and Ocean tile
So here's you're options:
If you want :c5greatperson:GPs and have the strategics, make a Nuclear plant
If you want Tile yields on mixed terrain with no clear winners, make a Wind Plant
If you want Tile Yields and a have lots of Desert / River / Coast, make a Solar / Hydro / Tidal plant
If you don't have Aluminum or Uranium, tough cookies. Trade for some or build something else.
 
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What made Hydro worthless currently that your proposal fixes compared to Wind?
 
I'll also throw this out there. Now the new happiness system may have changed this, but historically I'm not usually working that many tiles late game...I've moved more to specialists. Is that still people's experience? If that's the case, the tile based yields aren't a great way to go so late in the game.

The 100% processes is fine by me.
 
I agree that tiles are less worked in the late game, and only the best tiles get worked.

So, if tile based yields are still in, then it should be much more generously granted. So building on pineappledan's idea, that would mean Hydro, Desert, will grant its yield to all land tiles, and that Wind will not get its yield amount reduced from now (keep the city terrain restriction).

This will ensure that your best tiles will always get the bonus.
 
The +100% to processes doesn't seem super impactful. To make it a meaningful bonus you'd have to work processes for several turns. If you find yourself working processes and not making a last dash to invade a potential winner that late in the game then you've probably already won

I'm not a huge fan of terrain bonuses or more buildings. Terrain restrictions actively limit player choice and more buildings feels like adding complexity for complexity's sake. All of these different buildings but none of them are really crucial. The only one that seems really worth building is the nuclear plant.

I would rather have only 3 buildings that are all as strong as nuclear plant instead of a bunch of mediocre buildings.

If there absolutely must be so many buildings, give them all the same core bonus (+X prod, +Y% production) and then make the terrain specific bonus relatively minor.
 
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I don’t get the resistance to terrain bonuses. Am I the only one working GP tiles? You guys must be positively livid with how bad medical labs are, if you want that many bonuses on plants

Terrain yields are fine. The greatest lesson of the 21st century is that we haven’t divorced ourselves from the environment.
 
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Terrain bonuses aren't the issue, terrain restrictions are my gripe. Actually I have no issue with the terrain bonuses as long as they are secondary. I just don't want a situation where a terrain restricted building disproportionately helps one victory type (with more great scientists for example)

(Medical labs are kinda bland for the cost, they should probably get +5(10?)% food is converted into science, just like hospitals)
 
Terrain bonuses aren't the issue, terrain restrictions are my gripe.
then my suggested wind plant, which has no tile restrictions, is your boy. Read my proposal again.
 
then my suggested wind plant, which has no tile restrictions, is your boy
True, I was commenting on the overall ideas but your last draft on the plants is pretty good. I still think plants need +X% production as a baseline though. The processes boost is interesting but it just seems like a Win-More situation. Processes that late aren't going to help you win, they just fill the time when you've already won
 
The processes boost is interesting but it just seems like a Win-More situation. Processes that late aren't going to help you win, they just fill the time when you've already won
oh? Aren’t processes pretty major for cultural and science victories at that point? At that stage of the game, leveraging all your production towards tech/policy unlocks for the victory condition is pretty much all you can do if your borders are secured and your capital is competing for those last 1-2 wonders.

Is that a win more, or is that one more tool to try to beat another civ to the punch?
 
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Re: working tiles - tiles still get worked plenty late game. Realistically, at that point in the game you'll definitely be working specialists, but only the most relevant ones. It doesn't always make sense to keep working Great Merchants when you don't have anything to spend gold on anymore, for example. I'm still working some tiles by then, and the proposed plants will mostly align with working those.

Re: processes - literally every game at the end I'm working processes in most of my cities. I do wonder if such a large boost will affect the relative balance of game speed and wincons though.
 
Lategame tiles are still worked, especially if your civ has a UI, like Brazil (which translates to tourism with Hotels and similar buildings), Maya and France. 34UC adds more UIs as well.

I like pineappledan's suggestion, I'd only change the Nuclear plant to give a big boost to military production instead of the :c5greatperson: great person ability, even if only to specific units (notably, nuclear missile and giant death robot). There's a reason why people are wary when certain nations start working with uranium enrichment, even if they allege to be for energy production.
 
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