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Windmills or mines?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by T34, Apr 3, 2006.

  1. T34

    T34 Chieftain

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    Where should I build a mine or a windmill? If the hill has only 1 production should I consider a windmill because it gives me other bonuses in food and commerce.
     
  2. unhealthyman

    unhealthyman Chieftain

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    I like windmills and watermills as they improve as you research more techs, but its a pain because by the time you start getting them most of your original cities are fully improved and i'm usually too lazy to start again. Once windmills have been improved, they generally make more sense than mines (unless of course you are going for a major production city and have surplus food.) Windmills provide food, so normally a mined hill tile will be using food from other tiles and windmills can make them self-sufficient. Watermills are also better than cottages late in the game as they don't need to grow into towns or anything and are effective from as soon as you build them.
     
  3. Sparta

    Sparta Emperor

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    Another side point is that if you're financial and the tile is adjacent to a river, a windmill will instantly get the financial +1 commerce bonus from the two commerce of the river and the windmill. Worth considering, IMO, especially in commerce-focused cities (obviously).
     
  4. Lord Chambers

    Lord Chambers Emperor

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    I very rarely find a use for windmills. Even in commerce-focused cities, the mines will allow you to build improvements faster, then switch to good squares for commerce like grasslands. If you're having to work hill tiles in a commerce city, thus are building windmills you should either be at the point where you're cash-rushing improvements, or you've emphasized commerce in a place that'd be best suited for production.

    Granted, you might be harde pressed for creating commerce in your empire. Do as the situation dictates.

    Still, I find I only build windmills in polar cities which lack food.
     
  5. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

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    I build a lot of windmills, eventually, as my overall approach is to minimze farms (which produce zero commerce or production), and the food from windmills is a big help there. That said, pre Rep Parts, I don't make them a priority, as they're not that great a deal, and I'm still often building basic imrpovements. I will prioritze Rep Parts though so I can start transforming cities from farms/mines to mills/cottages.

    If a city needs farms, I'll build them on tiles that can later construct a watermill and save them for that purpose (cottaging other tiles), as they are outstanding with Rep Parts, State Property, and Electricity.
     
  6. Bezhukov

    Bezhukov Deity

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    Also, I'll build farms/windmills on all tiles of new cities founded/conquered midgame to quickly get them up to the happy limit.
     
  7. Black Waltz

    Black Waltz Prince

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    I tend only to build them in cities that would otherwise not be able to grow without them. The commerce bonus is not really that good compared to cottages for watermills. However, one very nice combination is watermill and plains/Tundra. Especially with the State Property civic.
     
  8. clinton

    clinton Warlord

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    I think only mining hills allows resources to appear randomly. Doesn't happen very often, but worth considering.
     
  9. Brave Jay

    Brave Jay Warlord

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    Which reminds me, I don't think i've ever had a resource appear randomly and i mine a whole lot more than i build windmills
     
  10. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    Another poster who hasn't yet learned that improvements should be based on the city's specialization, rather than on the terrain type of the tile itself.

    Find a thread about city specialization and get the right answer to your question. The complete answer is too long to post in here.
     
  11. jray

    jray King

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    I've had a resource appear ONCE in about 30 completed games at normal speed, usually on Small world size. I think that unless you play with large maps and slow speeds, it's not worth even considering. However, I do make sure to mine any extra hills that I won't be needing soon whenever I have idle workers.
     
  12. Zombie69

    Zombie69 Emperor

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    Why mine them in advance if you won't use them? Or didn't you know that bonus resources can only pop on a mine that is actively being worked?
     
  13. jray

    jray King

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    I almost always wait until Replaceable Parts to bother with any windmills. The only exceptions would be:
    - If Financial and not in desperate need of production, put windmills on river hills to get 3gpt.
    - If required for growth, put windmills on (preferably grassy) hills.
    - If you get Pyramids, switch to Representation and use windmills to support more specialists.

    Otherwise I mine all hills before Replaceable Parts. In the early game, you usually want to get buildings built ASAP and avoid the maintenance costs of populations growing too fast.

    After Replaceable Parts (+1 production), Constitution (better specialists via Representation), and Electricity (+1 gold), I tend to convert all mines to windmills to support more specialists.
     
  14. jray

    jray King

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    Oh, I didn't know that :). I guess I won't worry about this as much from now on.
     
  15. KillerCardinal

    KillerCardinal Chieftain

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    Amusingly, I recently played a game on Great Plains where my production monster actually didn't use a single mine after replaceable parts and biology. All my flatland was plains(I think 11), and I had 2 grassland hills, and I think I had 7 plains hills. Now before you ask why this bacame the production city due to food deficit, let me say that there were 3 cows on the plains, and 2 cows on the plains hills. Now, post biology, I was able to work practically every tile if I used windmills rather than mines, and I think that it gave more production than if I had mined those hills and railroaded them. I could be wrong, but it was at least comparable.
     
  16. Underdawg

    Underdawg King

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    I usually play large Terra maps and resources are found in my mines quite often! It happened in my last game about 4 times! Plus it was in my capital city (2 of them: iron and copper I believe).
     
  17. The Tyrant

    The Tyrant Prince

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    I always play on Marathon speed and I have resources randomly appear on mined hills all the time. It really does depend on game speed. More turns equals more opportunity for random appearance. On Marathon, this can be significant because not only do you have more of a chance to discover resources, but you'll get more turns of use from them over the course of a game.
     
  18. Calder

    Calder Warlord

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    I've only just found out that railroads increase production on mined hills by +1(as also on lumbermills). Anyway, I think the question of whether to build a mine or windmill depends on whats lacking in your city at the time. If I'm short on food, then build windmills, or if short on production I'll mine.
     
  19. Hunter Noventa

    Hunter Noventa Overlord

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    I think they are referring to the fact that you might discover a resource tyou already know of when you mine a hill. i.e. if you have iron working there's a small chance of discovering copper. This is not the same as "We have discovered a new source of iron!", i think that there's just a small chance of it when you complete the mine.
     
  20. A Silly Goose

    A Silly Goose Goose of Silliness

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    Actually, that's exactly what The Tyrant's talking about; it's just that there's a somewhat common misconception that it only happens when a mine is built. The truth is that you, indeed, must have a city population actually work the mine.




    As for the topic at hand, I'm gonna have to agree with what has already been said repeatedly--that it depends upon the situation. I myself typically use windmills on desert hills, since anyone working there can't feed themselves, otherwise. I've never really used workshops and watermills very much, though; I suppose it'd be in my best interest to give them a real try, though.

    Additionally, although it really isn't entirely relevant, I like to keep a couple forests, if they happen to be there; health is typically my limiting factor on city size, so the extra health is handy, and it gives something for all of my workers to do, once I discover mechanical parts.
     

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