Winning on Immortal and Deity...

[BLtheKid]

I played the basic Civ 4 years ago and was able to win at the third highest level, from what I recall.

I always had the same basic set-up, standard size, regular speed, 6 or 7 other AIs, etc.

I just played the game in a logical fashion (meaning I didn't know any of the particular winning strategies discussed on these message boards).

Anyway, I see different threads about people winning on Immortal and Deity and usually there seems to be specific set-ups involved to give a better chance of winning, even going so far as to pick the AI opponents.

My question is, does anyone win on these higher levels with a basic set-up and not customizing it to give yourself a better chance?

 

[lymond]

My question is, does anyone win on these higher levels with a basic set-up and not customizing it to give yourself a better chance?

Always. Most players that win on the highest levels play with basic settings (and no huts/events for that matter). I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for. Sometimes less experienced players come on the Strategy & Tips forum asking for advice on the best leaders/civ/traits that might give them a little advantage when trying out the highest levels. But the reality is that once you learn the basic strategies and skills to start attempting say Immortal, the "setup" should really not matter much.

However, do note that Deity is a much bigger step-up in difficulty than any other level. As one member said a long time ago, the jump from Immortal to Deity is like going from Noble to Immortal. It generally requires a good deal of dedication and attention to detail to win on that level.

If you want advice I recommend posting over on S&T

 

[BLtheKid]

Thanks. So you're saying that the best players can win with any of the leaders/civs on Deity? That's good - I was under the mistaken impression parameters were chosen that would give the player a better chance. Of course, that's sometimes the case from what I've seen - but apparently not all the time.

I've seen the S&T forum - lots of abbreviations and slang that can make things difficult to follow. I think deciphering the messages might be more than half the battle!

 

[lymond]

If you are new poster, most folks will decipher abbreviations for you..I know I do. But you really get far better help and attention there.

No..only thing I can think of is you may have come across some Hall of Fame (HOF) post somewhere. Generally, players roll "hof" starts for games to get the best results possible, but that is no matter the difficulty.

Otherwise, while no Deity game, and to an extent Immortal game (except for maybe the best of players), is by no means a given victory, generally one should be able to win with "normal parameters". And I'd say most players play with random setups (leaders, AIs, etc). However, one might..say..give advice to a player new to Immortal or Deity to maybe use X leader or Y civ, or play only certain maps, or avoid certain Ais..just to help get that first victory a little easier. (I would not) However, experienced players themselves do not seek these particular "parameters" in order to give any sort of edge. In fact, if anything, they look for a more challenging experience.

take this succession game we are running right now here:

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/churchill-the-mysterious-ladies-bts-immortal-game.606215/

Absolutely nothing special about this leader, settings or the start itself. Just a barebones game where we try to make the most out of it.

 

[BLtheKid]

I wonder, is there anyone who went through and won with each and every leader on Deity? That must have been done, right?

 

[lymond]

I wonder, is there anyone who went through and won with each and every leader on Deity? That must have been done, right?

Although I'd suspect that in general there's very few that track their victories by leader on a given level, I suppose it has certainly been done. It should be noted that while the HOF does not track wins by leader (although that data is certainly recorded), there is a Quatrro Master Trophy for playing each civilization, and further tracking of that for difficulty level. So yeah, folks who play HOF seriously have played all the civ which covers much of the leaders.

 

[Pangaea]

He takes some pretty wild risks at times, and often somehow manages to pull it off, but if you want to improve your game for the highest difficulty levels, I would recommend to watch some of AbsoluteZero's videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/Chris67132/playlists

A little self-promotion, perhaps, but I'd also recommend to check out the information contained in the Civ Illustrated guide. It's a fine place to visit if you want specific information about a civilization/leader, and also good for learning more about the quirks of the game.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/

Winning regularly on Deity is a pretty tricky proposal, even for the best, but it's certainly doable. Immortal is much more manageable, however. As lymond says, the step up from Immortal to Deity is colossal, and it's almost like playing a different game. The margin for error is much smaller, and there are quite frankly some games that can't be won, for instance if you end up isolated. AbsoluteZero loses quite a few games too, and although he's a very quick player, he's also mighty good, so that tells you something about that level

 

[Fippy]

Hmm with starting to play almost only deity for fun years ago, i probably have wins with most leaders..maybe all.
It's not really worth tracking imo. While good leaders help, map & start are usually more important.

Let's take some leaders who are considered the most difficult..Toku, Charly & maybe Genghis?
If you can win with any of those, you can also win with the other 2

Sure, deity is an extreme step compared with other diffs (Immortal is much easier as mentioned above ),
but they are still AIs. Thankfully IV has a difficulty level that remains interesting long after you figured out all the little tricks,
it's miles ahead of what came afterwards in that regard.

 

[rah]

Yeah, most people were able to win deity level the first time they played CIV V. Which is why it will be quickly forgotten.

 

[elmurcis]

...and civ6 BC finish deity space was done in less than month after release

 

[Pangaea]

It's what happens when the cover is more important than the pages inside.

 

[rah]

and civ6 BC finish deity space was done in less than month after release

Actually I'm surprised it took so long. And it probably actually didn't. It probably just wasn't reported.

 

[BLtheKid]

He takes some pretty wild risks at times, and often somehow manages to pull it off, but if you want to improve your game for the highest difficulty levels, I would recommend to watch some of AbsoluteZero's videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/Chris67132/playlists

A little self-promotion, perhaps, but I'd also recommend to check out the information contained in the Civ Illustrated guide. It's a fine place to visit if you want specific information about a civilization/leader, and also good for learning more about the quirks of the game.
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-illustrated-1-know-your-enemy.478563/

Winning regularly on Deity is a pretty tricky proposal, even for the best, but it's certainly doable. Immortal is much more manageable, however. As lymond says, the step up from Immortal to Deity is colossal, and it's almost like playing a different game. The margin for error is much smaller, and there are quite frankly some games that can't be won, for instance if you end up isolated. AbsoluteZero loses quite a few games too, and although he's a very quick player, he's also mighty good, so that tells you something about that level

Thanks everyone for your replies. I figured I could watch one of AbsoluteZero's games as maybe the easiest way to go (Civ 4 Deity Hatty) but right now he's been droning on and on about Egypt's War Chariot's value in comparison to the Horse Archer for about three minutes - I hope he starts moving things along...

 

[BLtheKid]

I rebought the vanilla Civ 4 a couple of days ago (when I thought I was done playing it about ten years ago I gave my disk away). I know people recommend BTS but I went with vanilla because I already knew for sure I liked that game.

Looking at the custom game settings, I remember that I always played a Standard Map - apparently I surprisingly didn't research the choices back then because that doesn't look like such a great option now. I am going to go with Fractal this time around - standard size, temperate, med sea level, normal speed. But, if one were to choose random for some of these settings, which ones make sense?

On options, when people are playing all these deity games and such, what do they use as their choices? I am thinking of having only "City Flipping After Conquest" and "Require Complete Kills" checked.

I am pretty sure I used to have Aggressive AI and Raging Barbarians both checked and am now thinking those would be better unchecked. What is the consensus on those settings?

 

[rah]

I think it depends on what Dif level you play on.
At the middle and lower levels Aggressive AI and Raging Barbs aren't that big a deal but as you get up to deity, they can become possibly quite troublesome. But sometimes they will make things easier because they will hurt the AI more than you.

 

[Fippy]

Aggressive AIs usually slows their tech speed down, but ofc dangerous if they are close to you.

Raging Barbs are very evil on deity, if you wait for a fitting start (like settling on stone and starting with myst or mining for masonry lol) they can slow AIs down a bit (but usually not much, their deity bonuses are too strong).

On random starts you really do not want raging deity barbs :b

 

[BLtheKid]

Aggressive AIs usually slows their tech speed down, but ofc dangerous if they are close to you.

Raging Barbs are very evil on deity, if you wait for a fitting start (like settling on stone and starting with myst or mining for masonry lol) they can slow AIs down a bit (but usually not much, their deity bonuses are too strong).

On random starts you really do not want raging deity barbs :b

I always want to play each game as it lays, so to speak. So, it sounds like you would say "No" to Raging Barbs in that case?

Is it also fair to say Aggressive AIs either checked or not checked doesn't really make a difference in regard to how difficult it will be for the human player to win, in general?

 

[Unconquered Sun]

I always want to play each game as it lays, so to speak. So, it sounds like you would say "No" to Raging Barbs in that case?

Is it also fair to say Aggressive AIs either checked or not checked doesn't really make a difference in regard to how difficult it will be for the human player to win, in general?

Both Aggressive AI and Raging Barbarians make Deity games easier for the human player.

So does slowing the speed (Epic, Marathon). Choosing Quick makes it harder.