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Winning on Warlord

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by Archbob, Apr 19, 2004.

  1. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    Well, I can own the AI in Civ II on Diety but in Civ III, I find it hard to win on warlord because the damn AI expands quicker(I expand still quicker but they expand pretty fast) and my knights keep dying to the spearmen and then all my cities go into disorder because I can't kill the enemy fast enough during war, arghh! I can build the pyramids or the Great Library, but not both and this really frustrates me.
     
  2. kcwong

    kcwong Chieftain

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    Well...

    1. Don't get obsessive about building all wonders. You don't *need* any of them to win, especially the ancient ones, and when you're not going for cultural victory. Personally I never found GL very useful. If you want to feel better, know that you can conquer them all later on. This way you can better develop your core cities (which you're using to build wonders), and better defend them.

    2. Visit the War Academy and read the articles there, esp. "Tutorial: Babylon's Deity Settlers by Bamspeedy". It'll teach you how to expand quickly.

    3. Knight [4.3.2] and Spearman [1.2.1]. As you can see, it's an offensive strength of 4 against a defensive strength of 2. It may seems you're going to win easily. But when the spearman is fortified, inside city, behind river, on hill, etc., it'll get bonus to its defense strength. It's not surprising that your knights lose. You'll need to use bombardment to soften them up first, or build a much larger offensive force and expect to die a lot. Never attack across rivers.

    4. War weariness. Monarchy is probably the best gov for long wars - other government types will have WW kick in after some time, and you'll get burned. Or you can make the war short - identify your targets clearly before starting it, and just take what you need, then make peace.
     
  3. Tomoyo

    Tomoyo Fate

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    On Warlord, building the Pyramids is great. The GL(ibrary) isn't as powerful because you can pretty much out research the AI. I don't get what your problem with the knights are. Even if the spearman in on a hill, fortified, in a city, across a river, it's defense is only 5. :)D) Knights can handle that. You just need enough. Maybe you arn't dedicating enough resources on the war?
     
  4. Wakboth

    Wakboth Chieftain

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    There's quite a bit of strategy change between Civ2 and Civ3. In C2, on pretty much any level, you could just outexpand the AI. The only real issue was controlling when and with whom wars were fought.

    In C3, you can still just outexpand the AI on the lower levels, but it's a bit tougher. The AI is quite a bit "smarter" about setting up his area (not brilliant, but it works). Also, I think that the slight changes to the way different tiles produce food/shield/commerce actually made the AI choices easier (which makes them maybe *seem* smarter).

    Read the academy articles. Play some games. Experiment. It's a different game. While the changes to tiles and workers/settlers may seem minor, they actually do make it a bit harder to keep ahead of the AI in a straight production competition. But that's part of the fun... :)
     
  5. homeyg

    homeyg Chieftain

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    If you focus on building troops/settlers/workers instead of trying to build wonders that don't really help you on Warlord, you might find that you will easily out expand the AI. I play on Emperor and I can easily match or even pass up the amount of cities any particular AI has early on because I don't worry about any buildings or wonders in the beginning. I only focus on troops/settlers/workers until I have decided that my expansion is over (when there is nowhere else to build). Then I begin building up my infrastructure. As someone said above, wonders are not needed to win the game.

    You're knights are dying, it happens to everyone. I never use artillery in the ancient/middle ages, I usually wait until the industrial age. But if you are going to attack a city (size 7-12), a spearmen will very likely be able to take out your knight. Just bring a larger stack to overhwhelm the defenders.

    Some articles that may help you:

    The Four Rules of Wonder Addiction

    Babylon's Diety Settlers

    Hope this helps!
     
  6. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    How do you out research the AI? I can't get my science up at all, even under a republic government. I tried that strategy of asking for per turn gold for techs, but that works only somewhat efficiently.

    I build GL not because I want it, but because I don't want the AI to get it.

    Tell me how to super science please!!
     
  7. kcwong

    kcwong Chieftain

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    1. Check your science slider every turn. Annoying, yes. But also very effective. Change the slider as low as it gets without reducing the no. of turns to complete. As your empire grows, this will save you a lot of money. With more cities and more research power, when it's only 1 or 2 turns remaining, you can create a few Scientist specialist somewhere and set the science slider to zero, and still complete the tech.

    2. Build your infrastructure wisely. Don't fall prey to the "City Improvement Addiction" after the "Wonder Addiction". A library isn't going to do much on your size 3, corrupted border city, but to cost you upkeep. A barrack is useless in your central, well protected cities that never build military units. Build them where they're needed and are most effective.

    3. Trade. Don't keep the knowledge to yourself... share it with the AIs. They're going to research it sooner or later, so why don't you sell them your tech and pocket their money? (Except when you're going to invade them and the tech will give them better defensive/offensive strength)

    4. Keep those communications secret! Delay the AI trade as long as possible... so you can act as the "tech broker". Give them techs like Economy generously so the AIs get more coins to rub together - so you can sell them even more techs.
     
  8. Gengis Khan

    Gengis Khan Chieftain

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    I recommend checking out the TDG that's going on, even if you don't join just reading over it will vastly improve your play & opening strategy.

    Links in the sig.
     
  9. binyo66

    binyo66 Chieftain

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    This is my experience. My current game is Emperor, huge, as many civs as possible, 31. I was far ahead compare to other in science, it started after middle ages. I got free feudalism (this is confusing me, I remember on conques 1.0, monarch, also Germany, I got free monotheism).
    Here is my style :
    1. War early (puny war), got free tech for peace, sometimes got leader. If necessary war with AI which is far away from you, as long as they got tech that u dont. By the time their warriors arrive, seek for peace. U usually got at least one free tech (if dont, just wait again couple turns). Dont worry about ww, there is none.
    2. Dont search dead end tech (except literature, because for Germany, library is cheap to build).
    3. After ancient time, even after I become republic. I still declare war with other civs,. But this time, I declare war with a civ that is far away from me, and ally with my neighbour. but I dont send any units, so my ww would be low. It would reduce the AI search, and the trade as well, and I kept doing it. In my current game, I was the only civs with MAs, n stealth, the others still infantry and cavalries. One civ, Japan was even still searching steel and Rep. Part.
    4. Trading!!!. Trading the tech at the right time. When, the civ couldnt afford it, give him as long as he want to be ally with u again other civ (I always war)
    Thats my way :D. Not guarantee in emperor, since it was my first game in emperor :D But I done it good in Monarch Civ III 1.29f with many kind And to tell u the truth, I think it was a lousy way to get free tech and I am still trying to win using other way (more appropriate way).
    There was an important note : luxs seemed play a major rule for alliances.
     
  10. Balázs

    Balázs Chieftain

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    Hi!

    Being faster researcer?

    Forget it!!!

    The only thing you can do, is:

    Starting with Seafaring/Commercial =>writing=>philosophy.

    If there are not to much Expansionalist in the game (it is especially true, for a multiplayer hot seat game), you may discover philospgy first.

    But after that it is a bit hard, because you simply cannot expand as quick as the AI.
    It is very difficult to govern 25-30 cities and the AI has usually even more cities, than you.

    Expansionist: build units, that move fast(cavalry), and spread your units across the land.
    Even on Raging hordes(Demigod diff) you can acquire the first 6 or 8 civ advances(my friend did this in a hot seat game).
    He was Religious too and tried to research Mysticysm(he was probably with Arabia) and I was playing with Egypt.
    By the time I would have discovered Bronze Working he acquired it from barbarians. We traded it.
    I have been discovering Iron Working(roughly 50%) he acquired it, along with philosophy. We were a bit suprised how well those barbarians were educated.
    So in a word:
    I was researchg roughly at 70-80% with 8-9 settlements, and I COULDN'T research anything faster, because he acquired it.
    My tip: Build a waste army, and fortify them around villages and ships controlled by barbarians. So, from time to time you can acquire new techs or money.


    Other: Save your map at the very begining, and explore it for rougly a 1000 years. If you are content or even happy with your starting location and it's surroundings then reload your save and start playing.
    Is this a cheat? Then what does the AI do?

    Settlers: Cities should give their "blood" to your expansions.
    I mean, if a city reaches level 3 or 4 start building a settler.
    It helps you expanding.
    At the beginnig it is adequate to have workers~cities/2.
    Especially with those Industrious folks(it is a VERY Convinient and helpful ability).

    By the way: Does Somebody know what Agricultural ability is good for?
    It doesn't seem to have any effect on Granaries(i think this would be more helpful than sanititation) and Your cities will be usually around the shores of a river(it boost your commerce) so the Aquaduct won't be neccesary.

    RIVERS!!!!!!!
    At the middle of the Middle Ages, my "empire"(10 cities +1 conquered town) produced more(around twice) commerce and science then my friends empire with 18-20 cities.
    So try building cities around large rivers.
    It was really interesting.

    Golden Age:
    Don't know when it is good to have it.
    It is certain that NOT in the MODERN ERA.

    Maybe in the begining of the Middle Ages(those wonders last forever and you can build it a bit quicker under the Effects of Golden Age).
    Or at the very begining, because it will help you a lot at Expanding you Empire. Because it will double they production rate.

    That's all.
     
  11. DruguLa

    DruguLa Chieftain

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    Agricultural civs also get food bonus in city center and I think one extra food on (irrigated?) deserts.
     
  12. Balázs

    Balázs Chieftain

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    Hi!


    YEEEAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1 food.
    City on desert sucks.

    So 1 food is the alternative.

    Is this seriuos?
    A Special ability, that grants 1 food, for your settlement above size 6?

    And for that ONE food, you sacrafice let's say:

    Research Buildings produced at half-costs.
    one free technologie at a new era.
    starts with Bronze Working

    OR

    Reliogious buildings produced at half-costs.
    Short anarchy at goverment change.

    OR

    +1 Shield at center city Square
    Workers at 150% production.
    starts with Masonry

    OR

    Military Buildings at half-costs
    Better chance for Leader, more Xp for units.

    OR

    +1 Commerce at center city square
    -1 cities at determing corruption
    starts with alphabet

    OR
    +1 commerce at a center city square when on coast
    +1 move for ships

    So, is that +1 Food SOOOO important?

    As I told before:
    The majority of your cities will be next to a river, so Aquaduct not required.

    Sanititation:
    Cities at size 12 can produce improvements fast.
    almost no need for halving shield-costs.

    So the benefit of this ability is 1 food until the development of Sanititation and after building that improvment the benefit is STILL 1 Food.

    Is that really an alternative compared to the ones I have mentioned abover?

    Well not a problem, because not counting the a Celts and the Iroquise, every nation with the Agricultural ability has a special unit that sucks. Especially those South-American nations.
    Incas. I really pity them. A warrior that moves two squares a turn.

    That's all.
     
  13. Gengis Khan

    Gengis Khan Chieftain

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    No. Ag Civs with freshwater next to the city(lake or river) produce 1 extra food in the town center even under despot penatly(meaning a town settled on a grassland next to river will produce 3fpt). They also get bonus food in cities centers(IIRC) and when irrigating deserts(meaning that useless desert tile turns into a 2 food 1 shield tile.

    Agricultural is easily the strongest trait in conquest, and even moreso for the AI.
     
  14. Balázs

    Balázs Chieftain

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    Hi!

    3 Food next to Freshwater?

    Well, we haven't experienced such feature.
    It is a patch-modification, isn't it?

    That' all.
     
  15. Gengis Khan

    Gengis Khan Chieftain

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    It's in Conquests, though since you listed Seafarings advantages I'm assuming you have Conquests. But it comes straight out of the box like that.

    Although I never promote reloading, test out a Ag Civ(but not the Incans, Ag/Ind is ungodly) and make sure your capitol is on a river. You'll notice the difference it makes immediatly, it's like expansion on steriods.
     
  16. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    I don't have the expansion so agri civs aren't an option.
     
  17. dze27

    dze27 Monarch

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    Just to point out, you also get half-price Aqueducts, Recycling Plants and Hydro Plants with Agricultural, along with the food bonuses.

    Balázs, have you considered that the Incans and Mayans in particular have weaker UUs for game balance reasons, because their trait combination is so strong? It doesn't seem like it when you read the description, but after playing a few games with the Agr trait, you will see that it is very good.
     
  18. DragonRunner

    DragonRunner Certified Band Geek

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    Now all those irrigated deserts turn into grassland with shields. That is very useful, especially considering that a river in a desert is a floodplain, which makes 4 food or so when irrigated. Settler factory in the desert....Hm, I'll have to try that.
     
  19. Balázs

    Balázs Chieftain

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    Hi!

    Agricultural: Well, I will see if this works.

    And yes, Your deduction is correct, I have Conquest :).

    Well I have never reached that age, when those buildings can be built.
    I still think, that it is not a big adventage, if you could build modern age improvements at hakf shield cost.

    But I will test that bonus food. I am really curious.

    Well I will take Your word.
    Could You explain me what UU means, please?

    That's all.
     
  20. SolarKnight

    SolarKnight Guardian of the Balance

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    UU = Unique Unit
     

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