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winning without rushing?

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by LaRo, Jan 8, 2002.

  1. LaRo

    LaRo Dead Rat

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    I think killing your population for hurrying your production is immoral.
    Is it possible to win at high level (deity) without rushing?
     
  2. Shaitan

    Shaitan der Besucher

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    Anything is possible...

    I agree with you. I dislike whipping my subjects to death in order to compete. Unfortunately, my entire civ tends to get wiped out if I don't do this in the early stages of the game. Don't think of it as killing your people, think of it as encouraging them to make the ultimate sacrifice to ensure the future of their civilization.
     
  3. BillChin

    BillChin Chieftain

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    I am sure it is possible, though I am a newbie.

    As for life without slave camps, I posted my method, which I call the "magic square" under the thread Fast Build out.

    Basically, build the first batch of cities two to four squares from the capital, depending on terrain. The name magic square means that on flat grassland, the optimal placement is two squares diagonal from the capital at the corners that the capital can not access. At this distance there is no loss of produciton. The magic square is almost fast as slave camps for the early build.

    One good thing about the magic square is it creates a small area that can be defended well against an early expansionist. If need be, build walls and even warriors make decent defenders and spearmen are almost impossible to take out.

    It is still a necessity to have a weak opponent nearby to claim all their land with an early military. Hopefully when you make peace, they will give you all their tech and you have a fighting chance.

    I haven't progressed to the mid game, but coming out of the first age in decent shape is step one.
     
  4. LaRo

    LaRo Dead Rat

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    It's like I do but does it work at lever higher than regent?
     
  5. zebomba

    zebomba Chieftain

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    Cmon. So many things are immoral, and in order to lead a civ, one needs to break some eggs.
    Think of AI cheating as immoral...
    Oh, and explore the world of Nietzsche as well ;) .
     
  6. BillChin

    BillChin Chieftain

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    Yes, the magic square works at least on Monarch difficulty which is what I am playing now. My current game start was a death trap, with English, Romans and Germans close by and each expanding fast and making constant demands. I build my early cities very close to capitol. This gives me enough time and resources to build an offensive military of Horsemen plus two catapults.

    I bribe the Germans and the Romans (free 1 gold per turn), then attack the English. They refuse to ally with me, but after I win a couple of battles, the Romans and then the Germans come in on my side and the three civs crush the very strong English. The English enlist some other allies but they are too far away to help before I capture all the major English cities. A fast moving attack with horsemen backed by catapults for heavy targets is very difficult to defend against. I try to avoid losing any military units to conserve resources. Horsemen are ideal for this as they retreat when damaged, unless attacked by another fast unit.

    My inner core industrial cities can crank out horsemen every four to seven turns without cracking the whip. This compares to three or five turns for a slave camp, so there is some fall off but not that much. The magic square also produces more gold and more tech than slave camps.

    With a good map (vs. the lousy one I just got) and more fine tuning, I believe a similar strategy is viable for the next two difficulty levels up. On Monarch difficulty with a difficult map and enemies on all sides, I have a decisive advantage with relative ease by 210 A.D. despite some minor mistakes on my part. I am playing Iroquois version 1.16f.

    Put away the whip and try it out on Monarch difficulty. I believe you (and others) will like it, and then work your way up to Deity if that is your goal. The keys are to build that first settler ASAP. Put roads and mines all through the industrial core section. One warrior per city, plus one worker for every two cities seem to be a good working ratio. Build the first cities closer than you are comfortable for max efficiency. Three squares distance max, unless there is some great resource to claim. Two squares distance is ideal on flat grassland (at the diagonal corners). This makes for a lot of overlapping squares and micromanagement, but it is an effective method.
     
  7. zebomba

    zebomba Chieftain

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    On monarch it's possible. Above it is a hard task. No rushing on high levels just see me helpless.:mad:
     
  8. BillChin

    BillChin Chieftain

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    For the curious, I started a game on Emperor (one below Deity) with Random settings on a standard size map. I am German on a small continent with Romans. My land is mediocre, with a cow icon next to the capital, mountains to the sorth, and desert to the north, with precious little room for traditional cities.

    What I do is shoe horn about twenty cities in a space and terrain that an AI player might put six to eight cities. This gives me enough production and support for military units to build my army of Horsemen. Getting the horse icon is nip and tuck as there is only one horse icon that I have any chance of claiming.

    The Romans are a tough early opponent because of their Legionaires (unique swordsmen). It often takes three to eight Horsemen to take out a single Legionaire. Despite this, my massive army of Horsemen backed by five catapults makes short work of the Roman Legion.

    I am still up the creek as far as tech goes, as other civs are building second age wonders and I am still in the first age. However, slave camps would be LESS effective on my current map at Emperor difficulty with little grassland and only one cow and no wheat.

    Still, I am out of the first age in decent shape with about thirty cities on Emperor difficulty, and no enemies near me. Unfortunately, almost half of those cities are destined for pop 2 or 3 because of the incredible build density. Still this is accomplished without cracking the whip in my own cities, and a mediocre patch of land. I did use the whip on captured cities, but even that is not a necessity, just a convenience.

    So for those who find slave camps and whipping citizens to death distasteful, there is hope, there is another way. Try it, and get the message out.
     

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