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[WIP] Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Hunnic and Mongol Revision + More(?)

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Creation & Customization' started by Kerfuffle, Jun 25, 2015.

  1. Kerfuffle

    Kerfuffle King of the Whale Sharks

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    Working Title: Horsemen of the Apocalypse and Bastions of the Orient

    In Production:


     
  2. Kerfuffle

    Kerfuffle King of the Whale Sharks

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  3. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

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    Hm... most sources I've checked indeed did say that the Tarkan was an invention from the creators of Age of Empires II, probably named after some turkish comic character... :lol:

    However checking some documents for a completly unrelated issue did show me that at least the Tarkhan does have some historical fundamentation.
     
  4. DJSHenninger

    DJSHenninger Megas Basileus

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    From what I know, ''Tarkhan'' was a widely used title.

    Does the Khan still have +3 Movement? If not, then its own ability may cause it to get left behind, therefore limiting that ability's usefulness. Also, doing things with pillaging may prove to be quite problematic, since there is no pillaged event for lua :/ There might be some genius workaround, though.

    And, good luck, if you need help and want mine, ask me :)
     
  5. Kerfuffle

    Kerfuffle King of the Whale Sharks

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    Yeah, when I was researching it, the Tarkhan's link to the Huns is what I found the least of compared to it's links elsewhere. "Ensemble, you did it again :rolleyes:"

    And whoops, i think I backspaced over the +3 movement somewhere along the line when posting this :lol:

    Ah, darn! The pillaging ability was the thing I like the most about it. :lol:
    And thanks for the offer! It wont be a for a while, but I'll ask when the time comes :D
     
  6. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    Okay, feedback(might be harsh):

    Huns- the UA sounds somewhat unfair. Many times I see the AI surviving almost complete destruction because of the happiness he gets from having less cities. Additionaly, cities during anarchy can't defend themselves, so you could basically march on the enemy's capital right after you conquered one of his cities. Add that to combat penalties that your enemy might get from the extra unhappiness... yeah. I think the last effect of the UU would fit better as a UA, and personally, I think the horse Archer doesn't need a change...(except for that it should actually require horses :mischief:). That UI sounds rather defensive(it can only be built in your territory), and looks like an improved pasture(I'd suggest moving this to the UA as well). Also, no borrowing names?

    Mongols- I'm not a fan of the free unit thing... And considering the incredibly fast UUs, using siege units(that also need to be set up) would make things much slower. But the Khan thing makes sense, and is nice as well. On the other hand, having units that move faster than ships.... Yeah.

    (And I assume the Khan thing is can only be used once per capital, and that the recruitment thing doesn't include barbarians, right?)
     
  7. Kerfuffle

    Kerfuffle King of the Whale Sharks

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    Thanks for the feedback, and don't worry about sounding harsh. I do an animation course so everything I do gets hammered into oblivion multiple times if need be (the world of animation is a harsh one, but a very fun one at that :lol:).

    I think I was going to make unhappiness last only a few numbers of turns (or at least until the end of a war), and I could maybe cap the amount of turns the capitals/holy cities go into anarchy (so if there is already anarchy in the capital/holy city, it wont get additional turns of anarchy added to it until it finishes? I dunno, not sure how that could be coded but yeah :lol: I can look into some alternatives to anarchy in the mean time.

    I didn't want to move the last effect of the UU to the UA because I didn't want the Capital to be swamped by an overwhelming amount of resources :lol: Imagine blanketing the entire working radius of a city with regular troops, the bonuses to the Capital would be like stacking two cities together :eek:. Restricting it to a single unit would help balance that out a bit imo. I could maybe keep the horse archer as is like you say, but I do feel like the bonus from tiles should go with it as well.

    As for the UI, I just separated the bonus on pastures from the original UA for the Huns and moved it here since I'm no longer using the battering ram. It does seem very defensive I will agree, maybe I can make it so that it can be built outside friendly territory (but maybe not claim the tile?) so you can move it close to the enemy and strike from there (it'd kinda fit thematically too).

    Also, no borrowing names 'cause that was really weird to me :lol:. I could keep it in, but I remember seeing someone do a city list for the Huns a long while ago and I'll check up with them. Not sure how accurate the names are though.

    Free Siege Unit from conquered cities was more of a thematic inclusion, with them taking engineers from the lands they conquered and making them help with future city sieges and all. But yeah I can see how it might slow down momentum. And yeah, Khans can only be expended once in a conquered capital. If I can't find a way to restrict it to once per capital, I might have to change it so that all they have to do is be garrisoned in a capital (though the payoff would be a bit too much for such a little price). Maybe I can make a Khan build an unlisted building in the conquered capital so that it stops another khan from expending itself.

    Thanks again for the feedback, I'll mull over some things and maybe post some adjustments later.
     
  8. Kerfuffle

    Kerfuffle King of the Whale Sharks

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    So time for a little update on my plans for the Huns! I've been mulling over and revising their design multiple times now and something always seems off with them to me. So I'm going to focus on something else for now:


     
  9. Tarmont

    Tarmont Empress

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    I am hype
     
  10. Danmacsch

    Danmacsch Geheimekabinetsminister

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  11. Hoop Thrower

    Hoop Thrower Cyberbolivarian Inkarri

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    Any plans on doing a collaboration with Lungora maybe? It seems you both have the same goals... roughly.

    Also, Zamburaks are the names of the Camel Mounted Cannons, of course, that name's already used by CL's Afghanistan. But you can always use a different transliteration of the name... or just name the unit "Camel Gun" which is pretty accurate anyways.
     
  12. Howard Tafty

    Howard Tafty Minister-Chairman

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    Excitenment! :D I wish I found out about this thread much sooner, I like the design and it has great synergy I really do enjoy it :crazyeye:
     
  13. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    I agree. Though its hardly from the same period...
     
  14. Kerfuffle

    Kerfuffle King of the Whale Sharks

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    I'm definitely considering it in the future, really interested in some of the designs and it does fit the theme.

    Yeah I had that in mind, though the problem I was having with the unit is that research on its usage within Western Xia itself is pretty hard do come by. Most sources I've read so far merely mentioned them along side other military things. Though vanilla Huns do get the battering ram for some reason so I guess Ihave a precedent to keep it :lol: (though it could be that I missed more detailed sources... Multiple times... I do that some times lol)

    @Howard: Thanks! I was wondering if I made the design a bit too focused but hopefully it's ok :D
     
  15. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    I like the new Hun revision, especially the UI.
     
  16. TranquilSilence

    TranquilSilence Grumpy Snufkin

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    The Tangut are looking really cool, and I'm especially fond of the colour combination and icon chosen for them - hoping to see them come to fruition in the future at some point, no matter how far away.
     
  17. lungora

    lungora Delkhiin Khatun

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    They're all pretty vanilla in feel though, and could use a lot of work - though I'm more than up for actually giving making things a go. bane_ showed some interest too. Not that I have any modding skills whatsoever, but I could probably learn. idk.

    Your designs look great, and Xi Xia's got me hyped. However, one very minor suggestion. As a Mongol enthusiast (is it obvious?) I've always disliked that they went with 'Khan' for the GG replacement's name. 'Noyan' (a general of a tumen), or 'Baghatur' (Hero) would be much better choices historically and thematically.
     
  18. Natan35

    Natan35 Mayor of St. Natansburg

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    How about you three becoming a team?
    You already have an artist in Kerfuffle, so you just need coders. Like bane_.
     
  19. Kerfuffle

    Kerfuffle King of the Whale Sharks

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    Ah, we'd be in the same boat. I tried coding before and cuoldn't wrap my head around it but I'm trying to learn at least some stuff this time around. Also can't leave my ideas as ideas forever, so I thought might as well give things a go! :lol: Also there's something to be said about simple designs, there's an elegance to them and balance is a lot easier to achieve with them. Let me know if you ever feel up for it, I'd be happy to help :goodjob: (though I'll be quite busy for a while with a batch of other plans first)

    Ah, well the way I intend to approach Genghis' Mongolia revision is more of a holistic approach rather than era-specific. The Khan is meant to actually represent the conquest of regions and establishment of Khanates within the empire (hence the UA) and how the Mongols integrated into local societies over time - as opposed to simply representing them as generals as Firaxis depicts them to be (though I'm still keeping them in an active role in combat). Maybe I can name the unit 'Noyan' or 'Baghatur' as you suggest and turn them into a Khan or Khagan after accomplishing something, like establishing an 'imperial court' of sorts in a Conquered Capital. However I don't want to mess around with the revision too much beyond the UA since I actually quite like the rest of the civ as is in vanilla.
     
  20. lungora

    lungora Delkhiin Khatun

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    heh. With my lack of skills - I don't think such would be warranted. As it is right now, I'm basically useless when it comes to actually doing anything on the doing side of things
     

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