[WIP] Horsemen of the Apocalypse: Hunnic and Mongol Revision + More(?)

Kerfuffle

King of the Whale Sharks
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Mar 28, 2013
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Working Title: Horsemen of the Apocalypse and Bastions of the Orient

In Production:


The Tangut
Capital: :c5capital: Xingqing
Leader: Li Yuanhao

UA: The Hexi Corridor / Ten Thousand Secrets / Words From Heaven
Upon creating a :greatwork: Great Work, receive a free Great Work of Writing if a slot is available; otherwise receive a sum of :c5culture: Culture and :c5faith: Faith from each filled writing slot instead. +5% :c5culture: Culture output in the :c5capital: Capital for each conquered City with a :c5trade: City Connection (Maximum +30%); this bonus applies once per City and is reset upon entering a new Era.

UU: Camel Catapult (Trebuchet)
Weak but fast, ranged support unit that provides +1 :c5moves: Moves for land units that begin their turn next to it. Does not need to set up before firing and may retreat from melee combat. +10% :c5rangedstrength: Ranged Strength near Cities for every Trade Route sent and received by them (Maximum +30%).

UB: Imperial Mausoleum (Garden)
+25% :c5greatperson: Great People generation and contains a :greatwork: Great Work of Writing slot. If the City in which it is built shares a Trade Route with a Civilization following the same Religion, +1 :c5faith: Faith from every completed Social Policy Tree. Does not require fresh water but must be built in a City within two tiles of a Mountain in your territory.

The Tangut
Capital: :c5capital: Xingqing
Leader: Li Jiqian

UA: Relinquish or Rebel / Tiger in the Mountain
During :c5war: War, receive a sum of :c5production: Production and :c5gold: Gold in all Cities for every Declaration of Friendship with another Civilization; additionally receive a copy of a Luxury they own that you do not if they share a common enemy. Upon signing a Peace Treaty with a Civilization, receive a portion of that Civilization's :c5goldenage: Golden Age progress every turn for the remainder of the treaty (More from Civilizations you have backstabbed).

UU: Iron Sparrowhawk (Knight)
Enduring heavy mounted unit that replaces the Knight; begins with the March I promotion and damages adjacent enemies upon attack or death. Upon the outbreak of :c5war: War or the beginning of a :c5goldenage: Golden Age, receives +1 :c5moves: Moves and no rough terrtain movement penalty for three turns.

UU: Foot Hiker (Pikeman)
Pikeman replacement that may use rough terrain as roads, and provides +1 :c5moves: Moves for adjacent Mounted Units that begin their turn next to it. When in rival territory, it and nearby friendly Units generate :c5gold: Gold and :c5goldenage: Golden Age points from kills. :c5goldenage: Golden Age points earned this way are shared with Civilizations that have a Declaration of Friendship with you. Upgrades to Musketman.
 

Kerfuffle

King of the Whale Sharks
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Mar 28, 2013
Messages
426
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Sydney, Australia
Planned Civs:

The Huns
Leader: Attila

UA: Scourge of God
During war, can boost Unhappiness in an enemy Civilization by conquering or razing its Cities. Razing a City sends its current yields to the Capital and heals adjacent Units. Raze Cities at double speed.

UU: Steppe Warband
Replacement for the Chariot with slightly stronger defense. When in enemy lands, yields from an Improvement the Steppe Warband is stationed on is sent to the Capital.* Furthermore, it can damage enemy Cities by pillaging nearby tile Improvements.**

UI: Hunlun Hunlu
Can be built on featureless, flat tiles and in neutral territory, but not adjacent to another Hunlun Hunlu. +1 Food and Production, and +1 Production on all adjacent Pasture resources. +2 Movement for Mounted and Ranged Units beginning their turn on a Hunlun Hunlu. If built adjacent to a Pasture resource, Mounted and Ranged Units respawn on the Hunlun Hunlu if it is free when killed nearby it.*** Unlocked at Animal Husbandry.
*Stacks with the UA
**Custom action that attacks a nearby City without moving the unit then pillaging a tile in the same turn? (Is that possible to code?) Also damages the City with the most HP if it is right in the middle of two Cities
***Within a 3 tile range

The Mongols
Leader: Genghis Khan

UA: To the Four Corners of the Earth
May expend a Khan once in the conquered Capital of a Civilization to reduce Unhappiness and speed Courthouse production in its Cities which you own. Upon conquering a City there 20% chance that nearby enemies disband or join your side and nearby hostile Cities go into a turn of Resistance.

UU: Keshik
Faster, ranged Knight replacement that generates Khans faster. Gains experience 50% faster and has no penalty when attacking Cities.

UU: Khan
Has +3 Movement and nearby units heal +15 HP per turn. Mounted Units near a Khan have +1 total Movement Points and may retreat from battle, damaging the attacking unit when doing so. The Khan may also retreat if stacked with a Mounted Unit.

Chu State
Capital: Ying
Leader: Chancellor Wu Qi

UA: Wuzi (probably going to change this name since the UA doesn't really reference what's actually written in Wuzi itself)
Adopting a Social Policy provides +15% production towards military units for 10 turns and a free promotion for garrisoned units. Completing a Social Policy Tree yields +10% Growth and +3 Happiness in the Capital. +2 Culture and Food in Cities near other Civilizations.

UU: Lingyin
Unlike the Great Writer, may move Citizens from the Capital to that city OR hurry production of buildings 3 times before being expended. Receive a sum of Gold when moving citizens or Culture when rushing buildings. May also act as a Great General.

UB: Língmù
Yields +1 Culture and provides a sum of Culture whenever a Great Person is expended unlike the Temple it replaces. Has a random Great Work Slot which when filled by an Artifact or Great Work from another Civilization, yields an additional +1 Faith and Culture.

The Song Dynasty (Literally want to do this one just for the flamethrower UU :lol:)
Capital:
Leader:

UA:

UU: Pen Huo Qi (Gattling Gun)
Earlier but weaker replacement for the Gattling Gun that is effective against Naval and Siege Units. When garrisoned in a City or stacked with a Naval Unit it deals damage to adjacent enemies every turn. May continue firing whilst embarked when stacked with a Naval Unit. Unlocked at Gunpowder.

UU: Paddle-Wheel Ship (Galleass)
Unlike the Galleass, the Paddle-Wheel Ship is faster but is more expensive to build. Its ranged attack is capable of reducing an enemy's vision and mobility by half, slight chance the enemy is completely blinded and immobilized. Receive Production towards Naval Units in the nearest City upon defeating an enemy in friendly territory, bonus increased if the Paddle-Wheel Ship is near a trade route.

Tokugawa Shogunate
Capital: Edo
Leader: Tokugawa Ieyasu
UA: Sakoku
Upon adopting a Social Policy, Cities enter 'We Love the King Day' if they are not connected by Trade Routes to other Civilizations that have been met. Domestic Trade Routes lengthen 'We Love the King Day' celebrations by 30% and prevent the establishment of Trade Routes to and from other Civilizations.

UU: Red Seal Ship (Cargo Ship)
When establishing a Trade Route to a major Civilization, provides a free copy of a Luxury resource from the connected City that is not currently owned by Tokugawa's Japan. Luxuries earned this way last for the duration of the route and contribute towards production of Naval Units empire-wide.

UB: Castle Keep (Arsenal)
Provides +1 Happiness for every two unimproved forest or jungle within working range of a City; regardless if they are being worked or not. +1 Culture on worked Luxury resources, +2 during 'We Love the King Day'.
 

Hoop Thrower

Cyberbolivarian Inkarri
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Chile
Hm... most sources I've checked indeed did say that the Tarkan was an invention from the creators of Age of Empires II, probably named after some turkish comic character... :lol:

However checking some documents for a completly unrelated issue did show me that at least the Tarkhan does have some historical fundamentation.
 

DJSHenninger

Megas Basileus
Joined
Mar 8, 2013
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The Netherlands
From what I know, ''Tarkhan'' was a widely used title.

Does the Khan still have +3 Movement? If not, then its own ability may cause it to get left behind, therefore limiting that ability's usefulness. Also, doing things with pillaging may prove to be quite problematic, since there is no pillaged event for lua :/ There might be some genius workaround, though.

And, good luck, if you need help and want mine, ask me :)
 

Kerfuffle

King of the Whale Sharks
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Messages
426
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Sydney, Australia
Yeah, when I was researching it, the Tarkhan's link to the Huns is what I found the least of compared to it's links elsewhere. "Ensemble, you did it again :rolleyes:"

From what I know, ''Tarkhan'' was a widely used title.

Does the Khan still have +3 Movement? If not, then its own ability may cause it to get left behind, therefore limiting that ability's usefulness.

And whoops, i think I backspaced over the +3 movement somewhere along the line when posting this :lol:

Also, doing things with pillaging may prove to be quite problematic, since there is no pillaged event for lua :/ There might be some genius workaround, though.

And, good luck, if you need help and want mine, ask me :)

Ah, darn! The pillaging ability was the thing I like the most about it. :lol:
And thanks for the offer! It wont be a for a while, but I'll ask when the time comes :D
 

Natan35

Mayor of St. Natansburg
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Messages
5,139
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Ashdod,israel
Okay, feedback(might be harsh):

Huns- the UA sounds somewhat unfair. Many times I see the AI surviving almost complete destruction because of the happiness he gets from having less cities. Additionaly, cities during anarchy can't defend themselves, so you could basically march on the enemy's capital right after you conquered one of his cities. Add that to combat penalties that your enemy might get from the extra unhappiness... yeah. I think the last effect of the UU would fit better as a UA, and personally, I think the horse Archer doesn't need a change...(except for that it should actually require horses :mischief:). That UI sounds rather defensive(it can only be built in your territory), and looks like an improved pasture(I'd suggest moving this to the UA as well). Also, no borrowing names?

Mongols- I'm not a fan of the free unit thing... And considering the incredibly fast UUs, using siege units(that also need to be set up) would make things much slower. But the Khan thing makes sense, and is nice as well. On the other hand, having units that move faster than ships.... Yeah.

(And I assume the Khan thing is can only be used once per capital, and that the recruitment thing doesn't include barbarians, right?)
 

Kerfuffle

King of the Whale Sharks
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Messages
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Okay, feedback(might be harsh):

Thanks for the feedback, and don't worry about sounding harsh. I do an animation course so everything I do gets hammered into oblivion multiple times if need be (the world of animation is a harsh one, but a very fun one at that :lol:).

Huns- the UA sounds somewhat unfair. Many times I see the AI surviving almost complete destruction because of the happiness he gets from having less cities. Additionaly, cities during anarchy can't defend themselves, so you could basically march on the enemy's capital right after you conquered one of his cities. Add that to combat penalties that your enemy might get from the extra unhappiness... yeah.

I think I was going to make unhappiness last only a few numbers of turns (or at least until the end of a war), and I could maybe cap the amount of turns the capitals/holy cities go into anarchy (so if there is already anarchy in the capital/holy city, it wont get additional turns of anarchy added to it until it finishes? I dunno, not sure how that could be coded but yeah :lol: I can look into some alternatives to anarchy in the mean time.

I think the last effect of the UU would fit better as a UA, and personally, I think the horse Archer doesn't need a change...(except for that it should actually require horses :mischief:). That UI sounds rather defensive(it can only be built in your territory), and looks like an improved pasture(I'd suggest moving this to the UA as well). Also, no borrowing names?

I didn't want to move the last effect of the UU to the UA because I didn't want the Capital to be swamped by an overwhelming amount of resources :lol: Imagine blanketing the entire working radius of a city with regular troops, the bonuses to the Capital would be like stacking two cities together :eek:. Restricting it to a single unit would help balance that out a bit imo. I could maybe keep the horse archer as is like you say, but I do feel like the bonus from tiles should go with it as well.

As for the UI, I just separated the bonus on pastures from the original UA for the Huns and moved it here since I'm no longer using the battering ram. It does seem very defensive I will agree, maybe I can make it so that it can be built outside friendly territory (but maybe not claim the tile?) so you can move it close to the enemy and strike from there (it'd kinda fit thematically too).

Also, no borrowing names 'cause that was really weird to me :lol:. I could keep it in, but I remember seeing someone do a city list for the Huns a long while ago and I'll check up with them. Not sure how accurate the names are though.

Mongols- I'm not a fan of the free unit thing... And considering the incredibly fast UUs, using siege units(that also need to be set up) would make things much slower. But the Khan thing makes sense, and is nice as well. On the other hand, having units that move faster than ships.... Yeah.

(And I assume the Khan thing is can only be used once per capital, and that the recruitment thing doesn't include barbarians, right?)

Free Siege Unit from conquered cities was more of a thematic inclusion, with them taking engineers from the lands they conquered and making them help with future city sieges and all. But yeah I can see how it might slow down momentum. And yeah, Khans can only be expended once in a conquered capital. If I can't find a way to restrict it to once per capital, I might have to change it so that all they have to do is be garrisoned in a capital (though the payoff would be a bit too much for such a little price). Maybe I can make a Khan build an unlisted building in the conquered capital so that it stops another khan from expending itself.

Thanks again for the feedback, I'll mull over some things and maybe post some adjustments later.
 

Kerfuffle

King of the Whale Sharks
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So time for a little update on my plans for the Huns! I've been mulling over and revising their design multiple times now and something always seems off with them to me. So I'm going to focus on something else for now:


Great Xia / Western Xia (AD 1038 - 1227) was an empire established by the Tangut people in Northern China, and is otherwise known as Minyak to the Tangut themselves. They controlled the Hexi Corridor, a vital segment of the Silk Road linking China to Central Asia and beyond, a highly valuable route of great economic and military importance. They were also highly devout Buddhists as reflected in their art and literature (as well as the monasteries that remained after the Empire's decline). They translated vast quantities of Buddhist texts, at times inviting monks from Tibet and India to provide texts for translation, as well as many other texts of Chinese origin. Their script was also highly complex, containing almost 6000 characters, and was developed under the eye of their first emperor: Jingzong (born Li Yuanhao). Jingzong possessed a love to learn and was knowledgeable in matters both stately and militaristic, winning successful (albeit, at times costly) battles against the Song to the South-East. He acknowledged important aspects of Chinese culture in governance, and reorganized the empire's administration with the help of Chinese advisers. However, he also emphasised the importance of retaining the nomadic heritage of the Tangut people, enacting laws relating to dress code to discourage sinicization. Although the Tangut state of Western Xia prospered for a time, it began to decline due to the economic burdens of conflict, corruption, and weak leadership. Western Xia unfortunately saw its ultimate demise with the rise of Genghis Khan and the Mongols in the north. After prior conflicts and refusal to aid in Genghis' campaign against Khwarezmia in the Middle East, he became furious and and swore to return. After defeating Khwarezm, Genghis did return and so began his systematic annihilation of the Tangut. Cities were wiped out, architecture was destroyed, and vast amounts of writings that had been compiled were burned. As such, much knowledge of the Tangut is difficult to attain, and most sources which exist are written in the eye of neighbouring rival states (of whom wars had been waged with and against) with an understandably partisan perspective. Furthermore, Tangut writings that remained were incredibly difficult to decipher due to the sheer complexity of the script, though developments into research of Tangut culture and history have been made in recent decades. Even though the Tangut were almost destroyed and scattered, their descendants settled in other lands and in some cases become local rulers. Furthermore, their language continued to live on even until the time of the Ming Dynasty.

The Tangut
Capital: Xingqing
Leader: Weiming Yuanhao (Emperor Jingzong)

UA: The Hexi Corridor
Receive a free Great Writer when Religion is first spread in the Capital, and Religious Pressure from Trade Routes contributes towards Great Writer generation. During Golden Ages, +1 Faith and Culture in Cities with a Great Work of Writing, rising to +2 if a Great Work of Writing from a Civilization sharing the same Religion is in the City.

UU: Xi-Fang (Trebuchet)
Weaker but faster replacement for the Trebuchet that receives additional Movement along Trade Routes. Adjacent non-Mounted Land Units receive +1 Movement, and when near a Trade Route +10HP per turn for adjacent friendly Units.

UB: Imperial Mausoleum (Garden)
+25% Great People generation, and contains slots for Great Works of Writing and Art which generate Golden Age points when filled. International Trade Routes from this City generate 10% of the connected City's Culture output, 15% if the connected City shares the same Religion. Does not require fresh water but must be built in a City within two tiles of a Mountain in your territory.

UU: Iron Sparrowhawk (Knight) (Only with E&D activated)
Faster Knight replacement that begins with Formation I and has +10% Defense against melee attacks when below half health for every adjacent enemy (up to 40%). Upon being defeated, does damage to all adjacent enemies.
 

Hoop Thrower

Cyberbolivarian Inkarri
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Any plans on doing a collaboration with Lungora maybe? It seems you both have the same goals... roughly.

Also, Zamburaks are the names of the Camel Mounted Cannons, of course, that name's already used by CL's Afghanistan. But you can always use a different transliteration of the name... or just name the unit "Camel Gun" which is pretty accurate anyways.
 

Howard Tafty

Minister-Chairman
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So time for a little update on my plans for the Huns! I've been mulling over and revising their design multiple times now and something always seems off with them to me. So I'm going to focus on something else for now:

Excitenment! :D I wish I found out about this thread much sooner, I like the design and it has great synergy I really do enjoy it :crazyeye:
 

Natan35

Mayor of St. Natansburg
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Any plans on doing a collaboration with Lungora maybe? It seems you both have the same goals... roughly.

Also, Zamburaks are the names of the Camel Mounted Cannons, of course, that name's already used by CL's Afghanistan. But you can always use a different transliteration of the name... or just name the unit "Camel Gun" which is pretty accurate anyways.

I agree. Though its hardly from the same period...
 

Kerfuffle

King of the Whale Sharks
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Any plans on doing a collaboration with Lungora maybe? It seems you both have the same goals... roughly.

I'm definitely considering it in the future, really interested in some of the designs and it does fit the theme.

Also, Zamburaks are the names of the Camel Mounted Cannons, of course, that name's already used by CL's Afghanistan. But you can always use a different transliteration of the name... or just name the unit "Camel Gun" which is pretty accurate anyways.

Yeah I had that in mind, though the problem I was having with the unit is that research on its usage within Western Xia itself is pretty hard do come by. Most sources I've read so far merely mentioned them along side other military things. Though vanilla Huns do get the battering ram for some reason so I guess Ihave a precedent to keep it :lol: (though it could be that I missed more detailed sources... Multiple times... I do that some times lol)

@Howard: Thanks! I was wondering if I made the design a bit too focused but hopefully it's ok :D
 

Natan35

Mayor of St. Natansburg
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I like the new Hun revision, especially the UI.
 

TranquilSilence

Grumpy Snufkin
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The Tangut are looking really cool, and I'm especially fond of the colour combination and icon chosen for them - hoping to see them come to fruition in the future at some point, no matter how far away.
 

lungora

Delkhiin Khatun
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I'm definitely considering it in the future, really interested in some of the designs and it does fit the theme.

They're all pretty vanilla in feel though, and could use a lot of work - though I'm more than up for actually giving making things a go. bane_ showed some interest too. Not that I have any modding skills whatsoever, but I could probably learn. idk.

Your designs look great, and Xi Xia's got me hyped. However, one very minor suggestion. As a Mongol enthusiast (is it obvious?) I've always disliked that they went with 'Khan' for the GG replacement's name. 'Noyan' (a general of a tumen), or 'Baghatur' (Hero) would be much better choices historically and thematically.
 

Natan35

Mayor of St. Natansburg
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How about you three becoming a team?
You already have an artist in Kerfuffle, so you just need coders. Like bane_.
 

Kerfuffle

King of the Whale Sharks
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They're all pretty vanilla in feel though, and could use a lot of work - though I'm more than up for actually giving making things a go. bane_ showed some interest too. Not that I have any modding skills whatsoever, but I could probably learn. idk.

Ah, we'd be in the same boat. I tried coding before and cuoldn't wrap my head around it but I'm trying to learn at least some stuff this time around. Also can't leave my ideas as ideas forever, so I thought might as well give things a go! :lol: Also there's something to be said about simple designs, there's an elegance to them and balance is a lot easier to achieve with them. Let me know if you ever feel up for it, I'd be happy to help :goodjob: (though I'll be quite busy for a while with a batch of other plans first)

Your designs look great, and Xi Xia's got me hyped. However, one very minor suggestion. As a Mongol enthusiast (is it obvious?) I've always disliked that they went with 'Khan' for the GG replacement's name. 'Noyan' (a general of a tumen), or 'Baghatur' (Hero) would be much better choices historically and thematically.

Ah, well the way I intend to approach Genghis' Mongolia revision is more of a holistic approach rather than era-specific. The Khan is meant to actually represent the conquest of regions and establishment of Khanates within the empire (hence the UA) and how the Mongols integrated into local societies over time - as opposed to simply representing them as generals as Firaxis depicts them to be (though I'm still keeping them in an active role in combat). Maybe I can name the unit 'Noyan' or 'Baghatur' as you suggest and turn them into a Khan or Khagan after accomplishing something, like establishing an 'imperial court' of sorts in a Conquered Capital. However I don't want to mess around with the revision too much beyond the UA since I actually quite like the rest of the civ as is in vanilla.
 

lungora

Delkhiin Khatun
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59
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Vietnam
How about you three becoming a team?
You already have an artist in Kerfuffle, so you just need coders. Like bane_.

heh. With my lack of skills - I don't think such would be warranted. As it is right now, I'm basically useless when it comes to actually doing anything on the doing side of things
 
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