1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

With all that's been added in NFP, what would you consider a 'standard' game now?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by slavaskii, Apr 9, 2021.

  1. slavaskii

    slavaskii Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2018
    Messages:
    94
    Gender:
    Male
    So I love coming up with new strategies for faster science victories, but I only play with standard settings. That is, any of the extra game modes I always have disabled, and as I only own some of the NFP, I'm not playing with all of the new content.

    One of the problems I've been having is that, when I watch YouTubers or read guides posted online, people achieve these really solid victory times only to casually mention at the end how they benefited from a secret society, monopoly, or hero. While it's easy to just say that a standard game is anything that's not including a game mode, this is complicated by the fact that Ethiopia and Vietnam both included new districts. I haven't used the Diplomatic Quarter at all (as I don't own the pack), but its impact on city states seems like it could alter the pace of the game. Further, the Preserve seems like it has really strong synergy with some civs, and I can envision entire strategies revolving around it.

    What does this forum think is the true definition of a standard game now that we've reached the end of Civ VI? Moderator Action: Please note this is speculation not confirmed --NZ

    All content ending with Gathering Storm, or must it include the additions from NFP? Is a game without NFP substantially different than one with it, and are modes like Secret Societies completely disqualifying of a standard victory to you? Thanks in advance!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2021
    Hellenism Salesman likes this.
  2. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2020
    Messages:
    3,162
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Rouen, Normandy
    GS Settings + All Modes + Mods. :p
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
  3. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2017
    Messages:
    7,105
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Texas
    My standard games are GS rules+ Monopolies and Corporations + Barbarian Clans game mode at least turned on. I also own all the content from the base game to NFP so all the civs, leaders, wonders, natural wonders, city-states, districts, buildings and resources are available to me anyways.
     
    jgsb2001 likes this.
  4. Vizurok

    Vizurok Magyar Soldier

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2004
    Messages:
    646
    Location:
    Hungary, Sátoraljaújhely (spell it)
    For me, it's all NFP modes turned off, as in the end, all of them provide massive boosts for the human player as the AI can't seem to handle game mode content at all. The only exception to this would be Tech Shuffle that's actually a quite fun idea and pushes the human player out of the comfort zone as well - but if I looking for the standard experience, then I don't really want to depend that much on RNG.
     
    Josephias, nauberry and Wellfooled like this.
  5. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    Messages:
    5,131
    Gender:
    Male
    Pretty much without anything NFP related lol.

    I only like one game mode-- monopolies. But honestly they're all just noise to me if comes to strategizing and getting better. I roll my eyes when someone tells me about their uber game next to a natural wonder with heroes and t1 secret societies (Oh, the game handed itself to you, why are we even discussing this?)
     
    kaspergm likes this.
  6. aieeegrunt

    aieeegrunt Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2021
    Messages:
    478
    Gender:
    Male
    I find tech shuffle to be too gimmicky and gamey but otherwise I have to agree

    Finally gave up on Dramatic Ages, as I found the All Or Nothing era score mechanic, plus the era score not carrying over if you overshoot ended up with me doing all sorts of stupid gamey munchkin nonsense.

    So basically my “standard” game is literally a standard game
     
  7. Kwami

    Kwami Deity

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2010
    Messages:
    2,118
    The only mode that feels "standard" to me is the barbarian clans mode. Enabling that mode tends to buff the barbarians early, but then make them vanish later in the game, which actually feels quite nice. It's not really much of a player advantage, either. You might get lucky with some extra city states later, I guess.

    The other modes are all a big power spike or else harm the AI too much, unfortunately. They're still fun to play, though!
     
  8. Vargas1

    Vargas1 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2020
    Messages:
    350
    Gender:
    Male
    For me, I would consider 'standard' to be no modes (maybe barbarian) with other NFP content. The DQ can give you slightly more envoys and some additional benefit from CS's, but not enough that it makes a big difference in the game. And unless you're playing as Inca, BM Teddy, or maybe Kupe, the Preserve isn't going to be game-altering either - worth building a few if you have the right location/setup, but not something to base a whole game around.
    Of the modes, I like SS a lot, but it does make the game significantly easier, particularly if you make the logical choice of taking Voidsingers. Monumentality+faith generation is just too much of an early game bonus.
     
    Deadly Dog and Josephias like this.
  9. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,772
    This is my most common settings (or small list of settings) for a generic non-specific game

    Map: Seven Seas or Continents & Islands, occaisonally Pangaea
    Difficulty: Emperor, maybe king if my last game annoyed me
    Size: Standard (city states turned to 16)
    Sea level: low
    Start position: Legendary
    Speed: Quick
    Modes: Secret Societies and Heroes. I may add barbarians to my regular mix. Secret Societies was only put back on recent with the AI supposedly learning how to use cultists, but it seems they actually havne't... so I may start leaving it out again. I don't really like apocalypse, shuffle, zombies, monopolies (may owe this one a re-try since the rebalance), or dramatic ages.

    Everything else I leave on standard.
     
    Hellenism Salesman likes this.
  10. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,706
    My view is that a standard game is the GS rule set, all picker pools left alone, meaning everything within them is included and may appear in the game, also all NFP content is in, except the modes which are all explicitly off for a standard game.
     
    Noble Zarkon likes this.
  11. Futumch

    Futumch Calm as a Coma

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2001
    Messages:
    722
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    142 E 42 S
    All NFP modes off, and disaster level slider set to 2 (from GS). Continents and Islands map. Normal speed. Huge map.

    I only really like Monopolies mode out of the new stuff. Well, enough to play it more than a couple of times. I have zero interest in the zombie and heroes modes, I haven't even played them.
     
  12. Mount Suribachi

    Mount Suribachi Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2014
    Messages:
    300
    Location:
    England
    ON:
    Secret Societies - They all have their benefits and add another layer of planning and decision making to the game. Sometimes can be way too RNG to get what you actually want. My last 2 games I didn't pop my preffered society till the Industrial Era. Grrrr.
    Heroes and Legends - Again, can be RNG which ones you get. They're all good, some are amazing. If nothing else, high movement and combat strength makes them into strong scouts that can survive against barbs

    OFF:
    Monopolies and Corporations - they're either broken (tourism) or irrelevant (+25% faith in a city with no faith)
    Apocalypse mode - I like the idea of racing to leave Earth as meteors rain down, but it turns out having your city wiped off the map when you're on the verge of victory isn't fun
    Barbarian mode - I like the idea of this. I loved how Barbs worked in Civ 4, but that also played into the whole colonisation/vassalship mechanic in that game. In VI this mode is just meh. I played it once and turned it off.
    Zombies - just an irritant more than anything.
    Dramatic Ages - way way way way way way, wayyyyyyyy too dependant upon conquest, the most tedious of all victory types.
     
    8housesofelixir and iammaxhailme like this.
  13. iammaxhailme

    iammaxhailme Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2015
    Messages:
    1,772
    Partly I wish monopolies/corps mode just gave cities the boost to a yield and didn't give tourism at all. Yeah, you could stilll end up with a +yield but you aren't producing any situation... but part of the challenge of the mode could be aiming cities towards what resources they have nearby.
     
  14. Melkus

    Melkus Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Messages:
    85
    Most modes are fun and I like to play them (no vampires, or zombies, or - Sid forbid - comets), but if "standard" is defined as "not lowering the difficulty", let's not kid ourselves - all modes have to be excluded. I've settled on some personal rules (after too much tinkering):

    The heroes mode is one of the few that can mix things up and keep things balanced - if you can restrain yourself from using the weirder (okay, almost all) hero abilities, use the heroes only defensively or simply do not spawn heroes at all. A sudden appearance of an AI Mulan or Hercules can make things interesting then (even end your game).
    Maybe heroes should only spawn as a catch-up mechanism when something bad happens, like the loss of a city, a surprise war by a bigger opponent or a biblical flood.

    The barbarians mode also gives you "unfair" options (cheap or unusual units) that the AI doesn't use but those can be avoided by house rule - and it's a mild advantage compared to Hercules taking two early cities and finishing three districts in his first lifetime. There's more trouble with the assortment of bugs and oversights that happens when camps turn to city states. (esp. the city state centres with negative combat strength)

    Shuffle is fine, I guess, but sometimes leads to weird, selfharming beelines by the AI (depending on the result of the shuffling) and cripple their unique strengths - which can ruin games, but at least it can go the other way as well.

    Dramatic ages are a balancing act - I use a house mod that reduces free city loyalty to 2 (that's the value other cities get for golden ages, it's really enough) and reduces the number of revolting cities - which stops the notorious loyalty implosions of whole continents on higher levels. There are still serious issues here with the AI tiptoeing around free cities (whose absurd unit spam is not helping) and their still quite atrocious loyalty game.

    Even without monopoly culture (which you can't even mod out), Corp mode obviously stays unfair until the AI can build corporations (they don't , even with the mod that helps the AI to improve their luxuries and get industries). Those help you to pull away (10 prod!) at the exact time many games get boring anyway.
    Corp mode is mostly a multiplayer / city builder mode in this state.

    Preserves are another issue with their silly meme-ish stacking (but otherwise fine), but I'm not touching the main rule set.
     
    tzu likes this.
  15. TreVor_ish

    TreVor_ish Warlord

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2020
    Messages:
    273
    Without objective morality everything is permissible :mischief:
    However even C&M is rather boring after few games. (adding broken AI priority to improve tiles with resources and still no corporations build by it)
    After a year of additional content nothing has changed and with every added mode one only adds unbreakable chains onto AI.
    Generally speaking, after some changes in them, I would say:
    - Dramatic Ages
    - Barbarian Clans
    - Monopolies & Corporations
    would be my standard game.
    GS ruleset, Cty-States - 1, Disasters - 2, Huge or Larger map (Hot, Wet, Low Sea Level - lately with either Continents&Islands or Fractal)
    Pools unchanged, although when it comes to Leaders i tend to create pools with those I think would benefit from current chosen map I play and be somewhat challenging. Minus Curtis - he can suck it :p (however not always)
     
    snakeboy likes this.
  16. EarendilTheMariner

    EarendilTheMariner Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Messages:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    I'd say my standard is:
    GS + Barbarian Clans + Monopolies
    Continents and Islands map (Unless the civ demands otherwise)
    Disaster intensity 4
    Large map (10 civs)
    15 CS
    King or Emperor Difficulty
    Epic Speed
    Ancient Era Start
    Either Standard or Abundant resources
    Balanced Or legendary starts
    Standard other climate settings, such as Age, Temperature and Rainfall, Standard (Unless the civ demands otherwise)
    No Turn Limit
    All Victory Conditions (Barring Points)
    No Duplicate leaders or civs
     
  17. SandFli

    SandFli Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2011
    Messages:
    46
    A standard game in single player is, well, the standard game (inc. expansions). NFP adds some fun Civs, but all the modes require some constraint on the players part to remain fair and realistic.
    Agree with @Melkus that switching certain modes on, but not really using them yourself, can benefit the AI, making for a better challenge.

    An enhanced game would be:
    + Monopolies & Corporations - great addition, except for the Tourism and low AI priority, making Culture Victories much easier
    + Barbarian Clans - adds much needed interactions with Barbarians, including mercenaries, plus creates City States in otherwise unusable waste lands, though often too quickly
    + Dramatic Ages - makes Era scores more than a minor modifier, until Free Cities start to outnumber the rest, the AI having no interest in retaking lost cities, making Domination a breeze

    A full fantasy game would be:
    + Secret Societies - cool concept, but lacks balance. Vampires and Voidsingers are OP under player control, while (on some maps) Hermetic Order is powerless unless Ley Lines are switched on
    + Zombie mode - an 'all or nothing' effect, depending on the map, that practically imprisons the AI, while usually giving the player easy advantages
    + Apocalypse - absolutely infuriating, spending an entire game building your cities to have them wiped off the map, and powerless to prevent it, but funny when it wipes out your opponent next turn
    + Heroes & Legends - Himiko and Sinbad are king makers, while Maui's ability feels closer to a mechanic that all players should be able to use
     
    tzu likes this.
  18. MrRadar

    MrRadar Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    1,706
    That all depends on the difficulty. I've played one game with those exact 4 fantasy modes, and Deity AI had no trouble at all to deal with zombies, and I did not have much trouble with them as well. But now I'm trying a Prince difficulty game with Zombie and Shuffle modes only, and the Prince AI is completely busted, as you say, imprisoned. Not one of my all five AI opponents got a second city after 240/500 turns, all AI capitals are sitting at 0 hp and besieged by hordes of zombies. I saw a bunch of city state death messages, so zombies must have razed them as well. And zombie mutation strength in this game is much more troublesome.
     
    SandFli likes this.
  19. Kibikus

    Kibikus Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2019
    Messages:
    323
    As you can see from all the different responses, there is no such thing as a "standard", it's all subjective.

    There might be some specific standards, such as those set by a multiplayer community, or the rules for a community challenge for example.

    At the end of the day, I wouldn't be worried whether your victories are in any way "disqualified", just play the game the way it is fun for you.
     
  20. Piranga

    Piranga Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2018
    Messages:
    163
    My standard is:
    All content up to Gathering Storm
    +
    All civs up to NFP
    +
    Corporations mode
    +
    Barbarians mode (with only 1 base city state, so all other CS's come from barbarian expansion)
    +
    A collection of 26 mods (only about 4-5 change gameplay at all, and of those most of them very minor changes)
     

Share This Page