WL Immortals = nastiest ancient UU?

[Pantastic]

I was just trying out cyrus, and discovered just how good immortals are. They're just an amazing all around early unit. Very quick to get, just animal husbandry and the wheel. Presuming you've got horses, you're now armed with probably the best unit in its era.

For garrison duty, it's a strength 4 unit that gets defensive bonuses and costs the same as an archer, with 2 moves so it can always hit pillaging barbs. It's strenght 4 vs 2 against barb warriors, 6 versus 3 for archers, and 8 versus 5 for axes, so it can easily take down any early barb even on bad terrain, so it does does excellent work as a fogbuster or 'border level-up' unit.

On the offense, You can take cities easily by bringing along 1 flanking and 1 combat promoted unit per defender; at essentially 6 strength you'll have little trouble before walls come up. IF they put an axe in the city, you're even better off against it. In the field, they draw against other chariots and lose to spears, but beat everything else.

They seem to be the best unit for killing someone's copper fast, then destroying them (aside maybe from a quecha rush) and remain fairly useful units unitl medieval units come along; if nothing else they make short work of any barb areas. Spears put a stop to them offensively, though defensively backing them with an axe means you're still pretty well off.

Anyone think they're not so great? Or have another unit they think is best?

 

[PurpleTurtle]

I agree that they are fantastic units now. As well as the units being quite nice Cyrus gets charismatic and imperialistic which combined with an early rush yield a nicely leveled up army and a great general most of the time. Actually, come to think of it, even the UB is nice given the health penalties on higher difficulties(I played my first emperor game today and had a city with sickness at size 3 lol).

 

[OceansEleven]

What difficulty level are you playing on?

I heard on the lower levels they get more bonuses. But on higher levels, some of the bonuses get cut off.

Nevermind, just re read the title

 

[suspendinlight]

Ah don't remind me. I just started a game as Cyrus and tried to take out Munsa right away with Immortals but those damn Skirmishers let him keep his last two cities. If they were just Archers, I'm pretty sure he would have been long dead but instead our war felt like Vietnam and I ended up accepting Meditation for peace...

But yes, with the new +100% vs axemen, immortals are very good.

 

[Ermak-]

 

[Mad2rix]

At first I didn't notice that Persian Immortals were able to receive defensive bonus so they consider themselves powerful on anicent ages.

 

[mice]

I haven't played Cyrus yet and didnt realise the immortals get the 100% against axemen. I played Mehemet though and had great success with chariots. In 1750 I was still meeting backward civs with axemen so it was great to bring the old hometown defender chariots up to the frontline to finish off the axes in that era.
The chariot doesnt get the defensive bonuses though. Next game is with immortals.

On Mehemet, the Janissary looks really cool and performed better than the old musketman,with 25% vs archery,melee,mounted. I still believe the musket rush can work, and on noble it did.

A Janissary rush with Mehemet's cheap civic upkeep courthouses and health bonuses is effective and fun

 

[Dark Russell]

I had very good results with Impi/Chariot rushes on large maps. The Impi's mobility and strength (starts with combat I) makes it great for attacking all but axes which are easily taken care of by the chariots. As far as single units go, immortals are good, but I do prefer the combined arms approach particularily with fast units.

 

[civ_king]

i had a very fun time with carthage i mauled the celts when then had their UU, i gave the numidian cavalry flanking 2 i made 4 of them and take a pop at what happened i still had one (numidian cavalry) alive and got 3 warlords from my war then then i ate tokugawa when he had samurai and this happend at monarch difficuty


PS, sorry about the large run-on sentance
civ king

 

[aljawn]

Greetings (since it is my first post here).

I have tried Cyrus, several times, in Noble/Great Plains/Tiny (I think the settings are great for micromanagement, since you hardly ever get to found more than 4 cities).

Immortals are indeed a great unit, but if you can get your hands on horses. I have noticed that with these settings, it is not that usual, in fact 4 out of 5 games, there are no horses in my part of the map. Usually, an opponent has the only source(s), so, by waging a war against him, you may get the horses when immortals have outlived their usefulness.

So, i generally consider them to be a great but not so dependable unit (just like keshinks, panzers or praets): you might not get it at all.

 

[Betafor]

Greetings (since it is my first post here).

I have tried Cyrus, several times, in Noble/Great Plains/Tiny (I think the settings are great for micromanagement, since you hardly ever get to found more than 4 cities).

Immortals are indeed a great unit, but if you can get your hands on horses. I have noticed that with these settings, it is not that usual, in fact 4 out of 5 games, there are no horses in my part of the map. Usually, an opponent has the only source(s), so, by waging a war against him, you may get the horses when immortals have outlived their usefulness.

So, i generally consider them to be a great but not so dependable unit (just like keshinks, panzers or praets): you might not get it at all.

Welcome to the Forums! -
You have the right to remain silent
You have the right to a fair trial
You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford one, one will be provided for you.

No - seriously - welcome.

Actually, i seem to have the opposite problem in my games, in the past 5 games i've played, i've had horses in my 2nd or 3rd city - what map size are you playing?

 

[aljawn]

Welcome to the Forums! -
You have the right to remain silent
You have the right to a fair trial
You have the right to an attorney. If you cannot afford one, one will be provided for you.

No - seriously - welcome.

Actually, i seem to have the opposite problem in my games, in the past 5 games i've played, i've had horses in my 2nd or 3rd city - what map size are you playing?

Thanks for the welcome.

Actually, i play on tiny maps, which, with the "play now" settings give you 2 more civilizations. Even an imperialistic civilization (with the cheap settlers) can't get more than 4 cities (perhaps 5 if you squeeze another one, or capture a barbarian one at the other side of the map).

Anyway, i would like to point out that immortals are quite a risk, since they come early, or not at all (if you can't get horses). I always research husbandry as my first tech, just to find out if i may get them (horses) from the beginning. If i can't see them somewhere near me, i would prefer to restart the game.

I guess the same applies to any size/type of map.

On the contrary, quechas (for instance) are good and always dependable, since you can build them regardless of the strategic resources you possess. (I have found out that it is very difficult to convince a AI to trade you the resource you need to build your UU). The same would apply to redcoats or fast workers or any unit that doesn't require a special resource.

Perhaps, units that require a metal (copper or iron) may be easier to build, in this perspective, since you have twice the possibility to discover the needed resource (after bronze or iron working or even by chance).

***Even if a unit requires a special resource you don't have but comes late (cossacks, panzer fe), you have time to secure it. This does not apply to immortals.

 

[Murky]

I was just trying out cyrus, and discovered just how good immortals are. They're just an amazing all around early unit. Very quick to get, just animal husbandry and the wheel. Presuming you've got horses, you're now armed with probably the best unit in its era.

For garrison duty, it's a strength 4 unit that gets defensive bonuses and costs the same as an archer, with 2 moves so it can always hit pillaging barbs. It's strenght 4 vs 2 against barb warriors, 6 versus 3 for archers, and 8 versus 5 for axes, so it can easily take down any early barb even on bad terrain, so it does does excellent work as a fogbuster or 'border level-up' unit.

On the offense, You can take cities easily by bringing along 1 flanking and 1 combat promoted unit per defender; at essentially 6 strength you'll have little trouble before walls come up. IF they put an axe in the city, you're even better off against it. In the field, they draw against other chariots and lose to spears, but beat everything else.

They seem to be the best unit for killing someone's copper fast, then destroying them (aside maybe from a quecha rush) and remain fairly useful units unitl medieval units come along; if nothing else they make short work of any barb areas. Spears put a stop to them offensively, though defensively backing them with an axe means you're still pretty well off.

Anyone think they're not so great? Or have another unit they think is best?

They're not bad. Strong vs. Archers & Axemen.

They are weak against Spearmen, Phalanx and Praetorians.

 

[suspendinlight]

They're not bad. Strong vs. Archers & Axemen.

They are weak against Spearmen, Phalanx and Praetorians.

True, but your strategy should be to send a pillaging force of Immortals immediately to any copper the enemy has. If they have an archer or axeman (or nothing) defending it, you can easily defeat them and pillage the mine. Then, the AI has no choice but to build archers against your Immortals, which will be slaughtered. If you're still fighting with immortals against an enemy with Prats, you should probably sign a peace treaty.

 

[carl corey]

On the other hand, fighting with Axemen against Monty's Jags because he took all the nearby horses and you can't build Immortals is not that fun...

So, aljawn, you have a very good point about what the lack of early resources can do to you. I've taken Monty out with only Axes (having a Great General helped a bit) even if it meant going to 0% with the science slider and still having a deficit. The world just wasn't big enough for the two of us. Anyway, now that I have horses, I'm in no position to build them, as I have to get back on track with the research, infrastructure, etc. Drat...

 

[iamdanthemansta]

Imprtals are good but they don't really seem to compare to Prats. Prats not only have amazing strength but they have no effective counter. Imortals can be countered by Spearmen.

 

[Pantastic]

Imprtals are good but they don't really seem to compare to Prats. Prats not only have amazing strength but they have no effective counter. Imortals can be countered by Spearmen.

How is that relevant? Praetorians are a Classical UU, not an ancient one; you're going a full era later. Plus Praetorians are pretty much universally regarded as the strongest UU in the game, saying that another unit is not good because Praetorians are better is kind of silly.