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"Wokeist" - When people talk about progressivism without acquaintance

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Angst, May 5, 2022.

  1. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    Offhand I would guess most white families escaped early 20th century poverty through the government spending of the 1930s-1960s, most intensely through the GI bill and a briefly very progressive tax code.
     
  2. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Yeah, I'd argue the decisive factor was the FHA guaranteeing mortgages for white people. And by the way, there is a direct line to the FHA refusing to guarantee any mortgages for black people back then, and the enormous disparity in white and black household wealth today. No amount of magical thinking about "making the right choices" can surmount that brute fact.
     
  3. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    I come from intergenerational education, and my children will come from intergenerational wealth.

    The wealth comes from my parents finally “making it” in their 60s, dad working in his mid 70s. All of the wealth, all of it, is tied into two well placed properties, paid for by a strong income and good mortgage rates.

    I am able to put the icing on this cake as I went from what seemed like permanent underemployment to a career by being able to live in one of those aforementioned properties while collecting mega covid unemployment bucks, training my way into an industry that pays the most.

    I am a clear example of the system working, just as the exclusion to all of this privilege, to which I say thank you academy it’s a privilege and an honor to receive it, is evidence of the system not working.
     
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  4. Cloud_Strife

    Cloud_Strife Deity

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    What are you on about?
     
  5. Arwon

    Arwon

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    20220514_191040.jpg
     
  6. Traitorfish

    Traitorfish The Tighnahulish Kid

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    I think this is because, on the left, these language games about both internal and external control: about acquiring status and influence within liberal institutions such as academia and media, and about influencing society as a whole. But these are often incompatible goals, because they're aimed at two different audiences: highly-educated, affluent, professional class urban liberals on the one hand, and the culturally and economic heterogenous mass of working class Americans on the other. Not only are these audiences likely to be persuaded by different sorts of language, they are likely to be repelled by the language the other group finds persuasive. It becomes even more paradoxical overtime, as the numbers employed by these institutions shrink and they become more exclusive, so the compulsion to develop even more impenetrable jargon grows, and they drift ever-further from what the man in the street would recognise as English, let alone find compelling.

    Conservatives settle their internal power struggles through brute force of wealth, by simply having more money, so they do not need to develop their own arcane cant, and can simply pitch their language politics in a demotic, "common sense" way.

    Let's grant that I did characterise the sorts of liberal media boycotts discussed in this thread "totalising attempt to control cultural expression"? (I do not think that the imaginative leap from "control" to "totalising control" is supported by what I've written, but let's allow it for purpose of argument.) In what sense is that a right-wing argument? In what way does it betray the influence of right-wing ideas?

    edit:
    I don't think this is correct. Plausibly true of the activist set (except for throwing "dialectical materialism" in there, that bits just silly), but almost exactly wrong as a description of how "wokeism" manifests at an institutional and political level. I would contend instead that "woke" liberals are basically functionalist in their outlook, that they understand society as an integrated whole, a social body, and the attempt to explain inequalities of race, gender, etc. as diseases of the social body to be treated by technical means. How else do we explain why so much of this stuff manifests, at a practical level, as corporate sensitivity policies? Does that sound like the product of people who see society as riven by irreconcilable conflict?
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2022
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  7. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    I feel I've explained this already in our conversation up til now so let's just leave it at that.

    I think Adolph Reed has the right take on this, which is that race-first liberalism sees society as riven by irrenconcilable conflict between racial groups, such that someone like Ta-Nehisi Coates can write that "black poverty" is "fundamentally distinct" from "white poverty."
    The issue with bernie's post is that treating race-first liberalism (racial "conflict theory") as interchangeable with dialectical materialism is silly given the drastically different practical implications of each idea.
    Ultimately leftism is about seeing past and then working through the various abstractions that divide working people (of which race is only one) because the real fundamental conflict in society is between the rich and poor. So, to loop back to what you're saying, the idea that corporate diversity training has any meaningful relationship with dialectic materialism is absurd. Most of the Marxists I know despise people like Robin DiAngelo and as schlaufuchs already explained people like DiAngelo and Coates are self-consciously and inveterately anti-Marxist (or at least anti-materialist; see Coates repeatedly claiming that white supremacy itself is a motive force of history).

    Anyway I may be rambling but to wrap up, right-wingers not understanding what they criticize is nothing new. Something something "cultural marxism"
     
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  8. João III

    João III King

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    Last edited: May 14, 2022
  9. Gorbles

    Gorbles Load Balanced

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    lol, France, famous for being "colourblind" in its handling of race-related (and religious) issues.
     
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  10. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    France will always have a different path on such things. I think it will always seem strange.
     
  11. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy syntax error

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    Would you agree with this? If you can't (simply pitch...), "they're onto you."

    Understanding the impulses are often opposing, but none may actually be parallel.
     
  12. Birdjaguar

    Birdjaguar Hanafubuki Super Moderator Supporter

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    The victims of cancel culture!
     
  13. Arwon

    Arwon

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    There's a real irony to these white supremacists being so god damn enthusiastic to steal AAVE slang, but I guess stealing from black people has been kinda their whole thing hey.
     
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  14. Hygro

    Hygro soundcloud.com/hygro/

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    Heyy
     
  15. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    Canceled is AAVE?
     
  16. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Yes. Have people already completely forgotten this?

    "Cancel" and "woke" are both lifted from black culture, originally used as kinda jokey and kinda serious terms to talk about, roughly, being done with someone's unacceptable behaviour, and being aware of structural oppression, respectively. The dumb irony is once they were assimilated, they were then almost immediately shorn of any nuance and weaponised specifically to sneer at and mock those exact same things.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2022
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  17. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    To forget something you would have to know it in the first place and most people don’t know the origins of words popularized on Twitter, actually it’s not unusual to meet someone who isn’t online too much who doesn’t know them at all.
     
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  18. Arwon

    Arwon

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    Nah it's older than that, the journey of the term went roughly from the 1991 film New Jack City, to rap and reality TV in the 2000s, then to online more recently.
     
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  19. NovaKart

    NovaKart شێری گەورە

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    I’m not trying to start an argument or anything but I said popularized, not one person using the word cancel (without culture attached to it) to talk about breaking up with his girlfriend.
     
  20. Arwon

    Arwon

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    okay
     

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