Wokeness Political Poison?

[Gorbles]

"a few have no idea" describes most kinds of people across the world, academics or not.

Regardless, completely irrelevant to the use of words in language. The people demonising "critical race theory" would do so even if it was named "happy sunshine days".

 

[Farm Boy]

I like liberal arts. They teach history.

 

[Samson]

I like liberal arts. They teach history.

I prefer illiberal arts:

Seriously, what does the "liberal" in "liberal arts" mean? What arts are not liberal? Could they not just call it arts?

 

[bernie14]

Makes sense because "woke" is the current big scary for conservative media. Now that its kind of stale it's being supplanted by the dreaded "critical race theory." Got to change it up to keep the fear machine chugging.

"a few have no idea" describes most kinds of people across the world, academics or not.

Regardless, completely irrelevant to the use of words in language. The people demonising "critical race theory" would do so even if it was named "happy sunshine days".

lol. More like removing lipstick from a pig

 

[Sofista]

Seriously, what does the "liberal" in "liberal arts" mean? What arts are not liberal? Could they not just call it arts?

Artes liberales (Seneca's definition; Quintilian called them ἐνκυκλομαιδεῖα [and if I wrote this wrong, Kyr is definitely going to tar and feather me]) were the sort of arts the free people (liberi) practiced, as opposed to those serfs practiced. They were the basis of Medieval upper-level education. They started with the trivium (grammar, rhetorics, dialectics) and proceeded to the quadrivium (arithmetics, geometry, music, astronomy). They were considered propaedeutic to the study of philosophy and theology, which at the time more or less meant "higher science".

 

[Farm Boy]

I prefer illiberal arts:

Seriously, what does the "liberal" in "liberal arts" mean? What arts are not liberal? Could they not just call it arts?

Given thier nature as history, political science, and philosophy, they're the arts that don't survive illiberality?

 

[schlaufuchs]

George Orwell observed this in 1944.

Happened with terrorist and anarchist too before that:

 

[warpus]

Just open up a new branch of academics called Conservative Arts and uhm.. that's as far as I've thought this through so far

 

[Gori the Grey]

Artes liberales (Seneca's definition; Quintilian called them ἐνκυκλομαιδεῖα [and if I wrote this wrong, Kyr is definitely going to tar and feather me]) were the sort of arts the free people (liberi) practiced, as opposed to those serfs practiced. They were the basis of Medieval upper-level education. They started with the trivium (grammar, rhetorics, dialectics) and proceeded to the quadrivium (arithmetics, geometry, music, astronomy). They were considered propaedeutic to the study of philosophy and theology, which at the time more or less meant "higher science".

All correct, and part of what this means is that the "not useful for earning a living" that is part of the contemporary reputation of the liberal arts was, in a way, in there from the start: not useful for earning a living, because they're the kind of studies for people wealthy enough to be liberated from having to worry about earning a living.

 

[Sofista]

All correct, and part of what this means is that the "not useful for earning a living" that is part of the contemporary reputation of the liberal arts was, in a way, in there from the start: not useful for earning a living, because they're the kind of studies for people wealthy enough to be liberated from having to worry about earning a living.

Those studies were also the basic studies for people in charge of the state. Think of Pericles and all those who came after him

They might not have had to earn a living (census was the thing; btw, which president was born in a wood cabin after Abe Lincoln?), but the main point, at least as far as which we can see, is being good with numbers. As seen in the quadrivium: arithmetics (being good at pure numbers). Geometry (being good with spatial numbers). Music (being good with numbers over time ). Astronomy (being good with numbers about the space we live in).

 

[Gori the Grey]

Those studies were also the basic studies for people in charge of the state.

Yes, the trivium, rhetorical training essentially, was for being a citizen: i.e. persuading your fellow wealthy adult males on the course of action that your society should take.

 

[amadeus]

Just open up a new branch of academics called Conservative Arts and uhm.. that's as far as I've thought this through so far

I’d be willing to join this school as a lecturer, but I fear that my conservatism and the “mainstream” of conservatism have drifted apart in recent years.

 

[RobAnybody]

Just open up a new branch of academics called Conservative Arts and uhm.. that's as far as I've thought this through so far

I dunno, sounds like a bunch of classes in Paintings That Even Cover The Ankles I, II, & III; A Study of Everybody Loves Raymond; Not Being A Funny Comedian 101, 101, 101 again; & maybe Constructive Ways of Chopping Penises Off Old Statues (chisel required).

But, on a more serious note, I'm guessing "Liberal Arts" was called such long before "Liberal" was used as a political term - it was likely meant to mean "free", as in, I dunno, painting, music, philosophy, dancing. I have no idea. Just guessing. But the term has become today (I must admit I also kinda agree with the sentiment) synonymous with "useless degree in the real world, unless you wanna just teach this stuff to other people".

 

[amadeus]

A Study of Everybody Loves Raymond

A henpecked husband with malcontent children is not the model for my future society.

Think more Leave It to Beaver, or Fred Mertz of I Love Lucy.

 

[RobAnybody]

That is fair. We can work on the curriculum together.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yes, the trivium, rhetorical training essentially, was for being a citizen: i.e. persuading your fellow wealthy adult males on the course of action that your society should take.

If we ever are distraught at the state of public discourse, studying rhetoric is probably about the most useful solution. As to it making people other than what they are? It does not do that. But in a democracy? One might think it prudent to care about a little bit more than we seem to.

 

[Samson]

But the term has become today (I must admit I also kinda agree with the sentiment) synonymous with "useless degree in the real world, unless you wanna just teach this stuff to other people".

Maths is the most useful subject I learned in school for my job.

 

[Gorbles]

Barely anything in my high school or university education was applicable to my job. I'm still in the whole "would rather get taught about taxes" camp for a lot of educational priorities (though at least I'm not forced to learn Latin), and before someone makes a crack about it being boring, please cast your memory back to high school for a second

Don't get me wrong, I did Computer Science at university. Some of it was applicable to things I do in my job these days. But most of my learning, in general, has been outside of university. On the job, so to speak. And I think that's a pretty common experience. Work placements during university are similarly useful. But the actual busywork is often just . . . . busy work. Space intended. I don't think that changes much between degrees, generally-speaking.

 

[Samson]

Barely anything in my high school or university education was applicable to my job. I'm still in the whole "would rather get taught about taxes" camp for a lot of educational priorities (though at least I'm not forced to learn Latin), and before someone makes a crack about it being boring, please cast your memory back to high school for a second

Don't get me wrong, I did Computer Science at university. Some of it was applicable to things I do in my job these days. But most of my learning, in general, has been outside of university. On the job, so to speak. And I think that's a pretty common experience. Work placements during university are similarly useful. But the actual busywork is often just . . . . busy work. Space intended. I don't think that changes much between degrees, generally-speaking.

I think there is a lot of truth in this, but; A) I think it does vary quite a bit between degrees. Doctors use their degrees quite a lot for example and B) I think it does not need to be like this, we could make education more useful if we wanted but do not prioritise useful knowledge enough.

 

[Gorbles]

I think there is a lot of truth in this, but; A) I think it does vary quite a bit between degrees. Doctors use their degrees quite a lot for example and B) I think it does not need to be like this, we could make education more useful if we wanted but do not prioritise useful knowledge enough.

Doctors are different because there is a lot of on-the-job training, this just also happens during the degree, as supposed to mainly after it. There are residencies, and so on, not to mention the sheer length of the degree in the first place (it's like doing a Bachelor's and a Masters plus perhaps a Postgraduate degree all in one, at least for us here in the UK).

I agree with your nuance, for sure, and there's definitely potential to improve what value degrees hold. But I think it's culturally-embedded at a lower level, around what education is meant to, or supposed to offer, etc. We just see the public discrepancies more in subjects like the (liberal) arts, or social sciences, or the like, because they're easier fuel for the "culture war".