Woman raped live on Big Brother Africa

[mark_c]

To reiterate, because your emotions are so inflamed that it's impairing your ability to read properly, a drunk man and a drunk woman can have sex one night, and the following morning the woman can claim that she was not in control of herself because she was drunk and did not consent. Why can the man not claim the same thing?

Don't worry, it's not like that (at least in the UK).

That doesn't apply in this case AFAICT though - we're not talking about a women who agreed to sex when drunk and changed her mind later, we're talking about someone being unresponsive. Whether that's really the case or not, I don't know, but the issue isn't about her simply being drunk.

Edit - okay, have just seen your later post where you acknowledge it's a separate issue to this case. Yes, I agree, the myth that women can change their mind if they choose to have sex when drunk, and make it rape, whilst men are hold responsible for their actions when drunk, is a double standard.

And I say this as a male who has received penetrative sex (from men and women). I want the right to have sex when drunk - I don't want a nanny state telling me I don't have the right to consent when drunk.

It's also highliy insulting to actual rape victims, suggesting that rape is comparable to merely choosing to get drunk, choosing to have sex, then regretting it the next day. Either don't drink, or take responsibility for your actions when drunk - but don't compare yourself to a rape victim.

 

[mark_c]

mdwh : I referenced drunk driving in reference to incidents where both parties are drunk. You can't use the fact that you were drunk to counter a sexual assault charge, even if you both were.

But if both parties are drunk, then _both_ would be guilty of sexual assault. Is that your viewpoint?

A person can't legally consent to sex while drunk, just like they can't sign a contract.

Yes, they can - in the UK: http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/legal/article328993.ece . Possibly there are some countries where adults do not have the right to have sex when drunk - but do you have a source of people being prosecuted for such an act?

Sex is not a contract, so it isn't "like" that at all. For starters, if someone signs a contract when drunk, the worst that happens is that the contract is void. I've never heard of the other party being guilty of fraud if they make a contract with someone who is drunk! Also it's not true that all contracts are invalid. For example, drunk people can buy products - you'd have a hard time trying to say that you didn't really mean to spend all that money online when you were drunk in front the computer last night. And it would be absurd to suggest the seller is guilty of theft.

I know people don't like it, because people want to have drunken sex. But that's why I'm reminding people that it can still get you in heaps of trouble. Don't want trouble? Don't have drunken sex with someone who might change their mind the next day.

Thankfully I live in a free country where it doesn't get me into trouble. If you are going to give legal advice, I'd suggest stating in which countries it is illegal, and citing appropriate legal cases or laws.

 

[LucyDuke]

this is so true. complete double standard. its not rape if two people are drunk and have sex. a woman will regret it and try to ruin a man's life by crying rape, but its not. its just that she wasnt responsible enough NOT to get smashed and then NOT whore herself out. i know plenty of women who get really drunk and do NOT have sex with random guys. being drunk is just an excuse to be a slut, and then crying rape is just how they cover it up. its bs.

Wow, dude. No.

 

[woody60707]

Wow, dude. No.

errr, as rare as it is, people do lie about rape sometimes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Duke_University_lacrosse_team_scandal

 

[LucyDuke]

errr, as rare as it is, people do lie about rape sometimes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Duke_University_lacrosse_team_scandal

I know it happens. His tone suggested that all women who drink and get raped are sluts making excuses. That's what I was amazed by.

 

[The Yankee]

this is so true. complete double standard. its not rape if two people are drunk and have sex. a woman will regret it and try to ruin a man's life by crying rape, but its not. its just that she wasnt responsible enough NOT to get smashed and then NOT whore herself out. i know plenty of women who get really drunk and do NOT have sex with random guys. being drunk is just an excuse to be a slut, and then crying rape is just how they cover it up. its bs.

You somehow possess knowledge of what she did or did not (or could or could not) consent to at that place at that time?

 

[Godwynn]

Where, and how should/could we draw the line?

 

[The Yankee]

Where, and how should/could we draw the line?

A good question and I suppose that's a matter of the courts to decide. Especially if the law is somehow different on the matter than anything we're familiar with here.

 

[woody60707]

I know it happens. His tone suggested that all women who drink and get raped are sluts making excuses. That's what I was amazed by.

He was being extreme in his post. But the general idea is true for a lot of people, me included.

Lots of people get drunk so that have that "excuse" the next morning. I my self made out this one chick whom I was embarrassed about people knowing. But it was ok because I was drunk.

But I made the choice to get drunk. Now thats not to say that its ok to have sex with someone who is in a drunken comma, thats rape. But as long as you are still up and about and talking, you are responsible for your own actions, drunk or not.

 

[Godwynn]

A good question and I suppose that's a matter of the courts to decide. Especially if the law is somehow different on the matter than anything we're familiar with here.

It would run into difficulty if a woman cannot consent while inebriated. How can a man tell if a woman is inebriated enough to qualify or not? What if she isn't inebriated enough, consents, and then files a suit?

Ack, this is a dangerous and entangling situation. However, the Dave Chappelle idea of a sex contract is a good idea.

 

[mark_c]

I know it happens. His tone suggested that all women who drink and get raped are sluts making excuses. That's what I was amazed by.

People who get raped aren't sluts making excuses. But people who have sex when drunk aren't people being raped. I think his point was meant to be the latter, albeit expressed in an extreme manner (also it's not just women who believe this particular rape myth - some men believe it too, whilst many women know it's false).

As to where to draw the line - we draw the line at consent. Things only get complicated if we start saying things like "If person drinks X amount, consent doesn't count".

 

[brainpan]

I think I raped my own hand once. But I'm not sure. I was pretty drunk when it happened.

 

[warpus]

Having sex whilst drunk is a pretty standard ritual most go through, at some point.

That's what bars are for - so you can get drunk - and have sex, with someone who is also drunk.

In this case though, sounds like a sexual assault to me. Rape would have to involve organ to organ penetration, imo.

 

[brainpan]

All of which seemed at least somewhat innocent back in my formative years. This is too dangerous an activity to play around with these days. People who don't know each other shouldn't be getting drunk together.

 

[azzaman333]

If she fingered herself while unconcious, would that also be rape?

 

[Winner]

Africa, what do you expect, jeez?

Big Brother is uncivilized even in European or American enviroment, no wonder it gets out of proportions when it's implanted to societies with different values.

 

[LesCanadiens]

Hmmn, no, there's a distinction.

You did not legally consent. Legally being the key word. "Rape" is partially in the mind (whether you consider yourself to be a victim). If you feel that you actually were okay with the sex, then don't press charges. It's quite simple.

LOL. When googling to see if you are correct (which you are, which is stupid), I found out that gay bashing (insulting someone who you think is a homosexual) is also legally considered sexual assault in Canada.

 

[woody60707]

LOL. When googling to see if you are correct (which you are, which is stupid), I found out that gay bashing (insulting someone who you think is a homosexual) is also legally considered sexual assault in Canada.

what LMAO!

Also what about drunk driving? If being drunk means you can not legally consent, then you couldn't legally consent to driving.

or what about a tab at a bar. If your taking money from a person who can't legally consent, isn't that that theft?

Does being drunk stop you form being able to give consent and being held accountable for your actions???

 

[classical_hero]

LOL. When googling to see if you are correct (which you are, which is stupid), I found out that gay bashing (insulting someone who you think is a homosexual) is also legally considered sexual assault in Canada.

SO if a gay man insults you about your heterosexuality, then is that also classified as sexual assault?

 

[woody60707]

SO if a gay man insults you about your heterosexuality, then is that also classified as sexual assault?

ohhh good one!