Women as Great People

Musicians could take from the large amount of female singers, so people like Maria Callas or Ella Fitzgerald.

Callas would be cool, as she is one of the most famous opera singers ever. She could make it in with Carmen, Madame Butterfly, or another famous opera as her great work. What about Harriet Beecher Stowe for Uncle Tom's Cabin?
 
Another spectacular female musician could be Jacqueline Du Pre with the Elgar Concertos. She's one of the best cellists of all time.
 
Now that you mention it, it's strange that the developers are so desperate for female leaders, but seem to pass on female great people.
 
Callas would be cool, as she is one of the most famous opera singers ever. She could make it in with Carmen, Madame Butterfly, or another famous opera as her great work.
Another spectacular female musician could be Jacqueline Du Pre with the Elgar Concertos. She's one of the best cellists of all time.

Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to happen. It'd be weird - and perhaps unfair - to have a Great Work tied to anyone other than its creator.
 
I'd like to see Ada Lovelace (first computer programmer) and Mary Allen Wilkes (invented the operating system, among other things) on the Engineer or Scientist lists. I have no idea how Frida Kahlo isn't on the Painter list.
 
Unfortunately, I don't think this is going to happen. It'd be weird - and perhaps unfair - to have a Great Work tied to anyone other than its creator.

I agree, but with certain pieces or oprettic roles you immediately think of people like Du Pre or Callas because of how masterfully they performed them. I understand why it's unfair to the composers, but it's equally unfair to not represent the performers. A nice compromise would be people like Liszt who were both, but we need to show people like Callas as well as Bizet who wrote Carmen, because they equally contribured to making Carmen great.
 
I wonder if photographers will be included in the painting section? Probably not, but it would sort of cool if people like Dorothea Lange became great artists.
 
It's not a great "painter", is it? The titles are Musician, Writer, and Artist, so photography could easily fall within the artist category (just like sculptors, drawers, etc., all of which are already in the game).
 
In a kinda off-topic note, do you guys think they'll make a single Great Musician and name it Beatles? Or are they going to make separate Paul and John Great Musicians? If so, who would produce which work? Paul could produce Abbey Road or Sgt. Peppers, and John the white album. Or maybe they'll produce Ram and Plastic Ono Band instead!








Or maybe Firaxis won't get the rights, and we won't see anything by the Beatles...
:(:(:(
 
Firaxis prefers to use public domain music.

If they want to use the Beatles' music, they have to wait at least 70 years after the deaths of Ringo and Paul (both of whom are currently alive).
 
I suspect female artists, writers, or musicians are an inevitability. Mary Shelley seems quite likely, for example. I don't think it was intentional that they were left out before now since they do appear in other great people lists.

Frankenstein should be a great work.
 
I agree, but with certain pieces or oprettic roles you immediately think of people like Du Pre or Callas because of how masterfully they performed them. I understand why it's unfair to the composers, but it's equally unfair to not represent the performers. A nice compromise would be people like Liszt who were both, but we need to show people like Callas as well as Bizet who wrote Carmen, because they equally contribured to making Carmen great.

Not to sound pedantic or anything, but Callas never performed Carmen; she was self-conscious about her ankles (she did do a studio recording and numerous recitals with arias from the opera, though.) :(

As a huge Callas and opera fan, I think Callas featuring an aria from Spontini's La Vestale would be best. If it were completely up to me, I would feature Callas singing either Il Dolce Suono from Donizetti's Lucia di Lammermoor, Casta Diva from Bellini's Norma, or something from Cherubini's Medee (or something from La Sonnambula, Macbeth, Anna Bolena, Don Carlo, La Traviata, etc... you really can't go wrong with Callas.) However, I do feel that each of those composers deserves their own entry (including Bizet), and I would rather not give one up for the other. Spontini is lesser known and largely forgotten, and in that sense is likely not to have his own entry. And come to think of it, Giordano was a one hit wonder with his Andrea Chenier so having Callas sing La Mamma Morta from that opera wouldn't be terrible, as the audience may remember that particular scene from Philadelphia.
 
Firaxis prefers to use public domain music.

If they want to use the Beatles' music, they have to wait at least 70 years after the deaths of Ringo and Paul (both of whom are currently alive).

I vaguely remember it being said that the Artists are going to be era appropriate. I can't remember if that was something Firaxis said or just some wishful thinking by a fan, I hope it's true though. Morocco could have an achievement for having the "London Calling" great work. :lol:

(Yeah I know, Rock the Casbah isn't on London Calling, but if they're going to have a Clash album it really should be London Calling.)
 
I'm getting so bored by this political correctnes reform of history. I hope don't People want a 50/50 split here, because then many of the greatest candidates will be left out; they where all men. Madame Curie and d'Arc is OK, that's about it.

You could add a great female singer of course, like Amelita Galli-Curci or Maria Callas. The great actress Sarah Bernardt could also be an alternative. They could perform at opera houses and theatres.
 
It's not really political correctness in this case, there's zero female Great Artists in the game and while the real life split there isn't 50/50, but definitely more than 100/0.
 
It's not really political correctness in this case, there's zero female Great Artists in the game and while the real life split there isn't 50/50, but definitely more than 100/0.

It's not only how many there have been, but also how influential they where. Let's just face it, there haven't been many female artists or scientists that have been really influental. In general they lack the creativity of the male. But I agree we could have arround 5% females.

Moderator Action: Sexism isn't welcome at CFC. 'They lack the creativity of the male' falls into that category.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889
 
Wow. That's really misogynistic! Women lack the creativity of the male? That's really offending. And no, that's not about political correctness, this is about basic human decency.

Nobody asks for a 50/50 split btw.

Also inclusion in civ is not a good measure for being influential. It's a game after all and the developers put in what they a) can think of in time and b) don't debate endlessly about it. So it's really really a bad idea to say that only the most influential ones can be included or that it's an insult to X for not being included, but Y is.

And thus, I'm not going to bring up a list of examples for female scientists, artists, writers and musicians since that is wholly beside the point here.
 
I'm getting so bored by this political correctnes reform of history. I hope don't People want a 50/50 split here, because then many of the greatest candidates will be left out; they where all men. Madame Curie and d'Arc is OK, that's about it.

You could add a great female singer of course, like Amelita Galli-Curci or Maria Callas. The great actress Sarah Bernardt could also be an alternative. They could perform at opera houses and theatres.

First off, you said Madame Curie and Jean D'Arc were the only ones appropriate and then suggested two more. That's precisely the point. We aren't saying there should be a 50/50 split, but there should be some. I suggested Mary Shelley before. Do you think she would be inappropriate as a Great Writer? In my view, she was a better writer than Percy. I'm not a fan of her work, but Jane Austen would undoubtedly qualify as well.

For painters, I'm a huge fan of Artemisia Gentileschi's Judith Slaying Holofernes, although it might increase the rating on the game if you include it, so they might pass on her. ;)

There are plenty of options even if it isn't a 50/50 split without compromising on quality.
 
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