Wonder Builders, Anonymous

[the_elf]

Hello. My name is the_elf.

I like to build wonders. Sometimes to the detriment of my empire. I'm here...well...because I think I might need help.

I just can't help myself. Once I link up stone or marble, and I complete one wonder, there's another one right behind just waiting for me to build it. Or, for me to start building it, and then get a payout of cash. I mean, get The Great Wall and the Pyramids, and then you're likely to get a Great Engineer that'll help you build another wonder! You can't not try for the Oracle! I mean, a free Code of Law or Civil Service, way ahead of it's research time? I have to try! And Stonehenge! Some may think it's dumb, but you get early culture going in all of your cities! No longer do you have to depend on your libraries and religous buildings for early culture!

Someone...please...help me!

 

[Thedrin]

The Great Wall/Pyramid strategy and the Oracle based CS slingshot ma well be dead. You could be in trouble.

Play consecutive games where you deliberately don't build any wonders. That's how I beat it (while simultaneously learning how to live without founding religions). I rarely build any now. In my latest game I haven't built any.

 

[the_elf]

Crap. Don't build wonders, and don't found religions?! Yikes!

What do you do instead of those things? Bolster your military?

 

[mrlaze]

I build a military and take over a holy city.
Im not very good at the game and mostly play the Romans. Which makes my strat. easy.

 

[balthamael]

Crap. Don't build wonders, and don't found religions?! Yikes!

What do you do instead of those things? Bolster your military?

I played a similar game and ended up massivley more powerfull, productive and even cultured than with wonders. I think I built The Eiffel Tower, and that was it.

 

[Thedrin]

Crap. Don't build wonders, and don't found religions?! Yikes!

What do you do instead of those things? Bolster your military?

Bolster what needs bolstering. Economy, military, more settlers, use of early specialists for more gold/beakers.

I'm not saying to never build a wonder again. I am saying to play a few games without them. As Balthamael inticated, you can become much more powerful without them. The purpose of the exercise is to learn the value of wonders. These days the only wonder I always build is the Great Library (except my latest game where I didn't build any). After that I might build the Great Lighthouse or the Pyramids or Angkor Wat but I'll only build a wonder if it will really help out my strategy.

 

[Stylesrj]

Stonehenge and the Great Wall are good wonders to have. With Stonehenge, your capital has something to build while you wait for the city ot be comfortable enough for a Settler without harming you much and the Great Wall means you don't have to protect your settlers much on the outskirts of your territory (you can worry, but a new city means a new wall extension, not graphically, but you get the idea) without Barbarians coming in. Also the Great Wall means you don't have to worry about your stone and marble being cut by an Axeman who does not know the difference between how to flee and a Chariot (the Chariot would win)

 

[Thedrin]

Stonehenge and the Great Wall are near the top of my list of wonders that a player is usually better off without. I only build the first one for prophet points now adays. The Wall doesn't have this advantage since mid-game engineers (the Wall will soon only provide 1 great person point per turn) are my least favourite great person type.

 

[Stylesrj]

When i build the Great Wall, i don't worry about a trivial matter as Great Person points. I worry that those damned barbs are going to go in and pillage my stuff again. Great Wall, less fuss, laugh at Barbs who can't get in, watch as they go annoy someone else. You guys like to play without the barbs don't you?

 

[Thedrin]

When I build the Great Wall I stop immeadiately, save 750 hammers, and build military units instead. You can get 10 axemen (700 hammers) instead of the Great Wall, 15 chariots (750 hammers), 15 archers, or, if you're really unlucky, 25 warriors.

 

[Stylesrj]

Bah, the Great Wall to me is a better investment. At least then I don't have to worry about those damned barbarians tearing up my lawn as I'm too busy building wonders or workers or settlers or defensive troops or lighthouses or forges in those cities to build an offensive to destroy those barbs. Great Wall, saves time

 

[marioflag]

I also find building wonders and having a shrine really funny and sometimes i can't simply refuse to build one anyway it isn't the most effective strategy because you need to expand and crush your neighbours and enemies.Building only wonders anyway on the long run become really tedious, i was used to play civ3 and alpha centauri to declare war just in the final stages, it became really boring!try to attack and enjoy a builder-warmonger game it is a lot more fun

 

[the_elf]

Part of my love of wonders is also the bonus culture push. I find myself getting bent out of shape terribly when an opposing civ corners me, and pushes into my land and resources.

So, if I can get a early wonder done on a border with another civ, chances are his city will eventually eat it.

BTW, one of The Great Wall's perks is +100% emergence of Great Generals. The Great Wall still not worth it, Thedrin?

 

[marioflag]

Part of my love of wonders is also the bonus culture push. I find myself getting bent out of shape terribly when an opposing civ corners me, and pushes into my land and resources.

So, if I can get a early wonder done on a border with another civ, chances are his city will eventually eat it.

BTW, one of The Great Wall's perks is +100% emergence of Great Generals. The Great Wall still not worth it, Thedrin?

it depends on what use you want to do of Great Wall, if you are a builder it is not the first thing i would build.Personally the only wonder which is worth building always is The Pyramids, other wonders are just useful in specific situations.

 

[Thedrin]

BTW, one of The Great Wall's perks is +100% emergence of Great Generals. The Great Wall still not worth it, Thedrin?

100% emergence within your own borders. I don't go for all out conquest but I do fight wars. I make sure to fight it in my opponents territory. The loss of health, luxuries, cottages and subsequent population and commerce depletion aren't worth it.

 

[the_elf]

100% emergence within your own borders. I don't go for all out conquest but I do fight wars. I make sure to fight it in my opponents territory. The loss of health, luxuries, cottages and subsequent population and commerce depletion aren't worth it.

Ahh. Crap. So that's what that means.

I figured it was for a GG to emerge within your own borders. That part I couldn't figure out, cause where else would a GG pop out from? In someone else's city. But now I understand that you have to be fighting within your borders and win in order to bring out a GG. :|

Okay, so The Great Wall...not so great.

 

[holy king]

was greater with phil and +2 GP pints, but with just +1 after the patch...

 

[gdgrimm]

Personally the only wonder which is worth building always is The Pyramids, other wonders are just useful in specific situations.

I disagree with the Pyramids. The Great Library is about the only one that I think falls into the category of being useful under (nearly) all conditions -- primarily because more research is always handy, and the GPP's for Great Scientists are never bad either.

Pyramids really shine when you're planning on using plenty of specialists, where early Representation will synergize with all the specialists. Early Police State can be handy in the situations where you plan on having lots of warring to do. But there's plenty of times that the "best" early gov't will be HR for the Happy bonus, and you can research Monarchy pretty quick if you need that.

 

[Crighton]

Hi, Ai'm Crighton . . . and I'm a Build-a-holic.

[crowd] - "It's NOT Ok."

Personally I love the Great Wall & Stonehenge combo, after that it's mostly irrelevant to me (except the Oracle, which I look at as a bonus more than anything else). Anyhoo, if I get those two wonders I know I'm going to be giving the game one hell of a time.

 

[WilliamOfOrange]

My name is Willim of Orange and I too, have a Wonder building problem. I have cut back drastically my obsessive wonder building binges, but sometimes still have difficulty getting the monkey of my back. I have been striving for fast cultural wins and I find that doubled culture values from Parthenon, Sistine Chapel and Notre Dame are nice, but cutting into the Cathedral strategy. I have been alright lately, but addiction is a tough thing.

They say that children of wonder builders are 10 times more likely to become wonder builder themselves and I want something better for my kids. I lost my grandfather and two uncles to wonder building and the circle needs to stop here.