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Wonder Defense?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by bardolph, Feb 14, 2008.

  1. bardolph

    bardolph Chieftain

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    Is there any way to remove the impact that Wonders have on your power rating, when AI civs decide whether or not to attack you?

    I think it's really cheesy that I can rely on the Oracle, Parthenon, and the Schwedegan Paya to ward off attacks from militarily superior neighbors.
     
  2. Polobo

    Polobo Chieftain

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    You would only find such a change in a mod somewhere. IIRC, the per-hammer affect of a wonder on your power rating is MUCH less than the per-hammer affect of a military unit, thus while the Wonders may help a vastly superior opponent will still take you down if you forgo building up a military.
     
  3. bardolph

    bardolph Chieftain

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    Perhaps, but Ramesses with Stone can make up the difference anyway...
     
  4. lordqarlyn

    lordqarlyn Chieftain

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    A mistake I often make, building up wonders, but not building up a military as fast as I should.
     
  5. Polobo

    Polobo Chieftain

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    It would be interesting to have the wonders actually decrease your power rating (or have a separate "attractiveness" rating) to represent that you now are a juicier target.
     
  6. lordqarlyn

    lordqarlyn Chieftain

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    I agree, I often go to war with a civ simply to capture a wonder they completed before I did but want for myself.

    Did that often in Civ II & III when a civ built Magellen's before I did.
     
  7. Bandobras Took

    Bandobras Took Chieftain

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    That's a pretty lousy idea. If I'm building Wonders, it's not because I'm looking for more people attacking me than average. The game already figures this in be giving a greater weight to military units -- the hammers I spent on the wonder were hammers I didn't spend on the troops.
     
  8. Polobo

    Polobo Chieftain

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    Bandorbras Took: I agree and wrote as much in my initial response. However, your argument presumes that the desire to have people attack me is a cause of building wonders when, in fact, building wonders rightly has the effect of increasing the desirability of your land and cities in the eyes of your opponents. Building libraries and courthouses, while also incurring the opportunity cost of building military, do not nearly have the same consequence.

    As a matter of implementation I could easily see having this kind of AI decision making logic only occur at higher levels for those looking for a tougher challenge. But, as mentioned above, the human often considers Wonders when making decisions so excluding that from the AI decision making logic seems to be handicapping the game in favor of the human (setting aside AI implementation concerns).
     
  9. Bushface

    Bushface Chieftain

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    Generally, the AI civs will only attack you if they see you as relatively weaker, working from "power" ratings. According to Robi D's article "The Inner Workings of the Demog Screen Explained", the three Wonders mentioned have no effect on power rating; only Chichen Itza and the Great Wall do so, worth a total of 18,000 "soldiers". Of National wonders, six affect the power rating by 4,000 or 8,000 each, and a Military Academy by 6,000. For comparison, knowing Horseback Riding is worth 10,000, each Maceman 5,000 and each Cavalry 12,000. I note that you have "militarily superior" neighbours, which makes you vulnerable in the eyes of the AI,
    However, the AI civs make their decision to attack when they believe they have a winning chance, well before the attack actually begins. Some leaders will decide to attack even when they are pleased with you, others when cautious, yet others only when annoyed (Shaka and Montezuma are in that group, but they're very easily annoyed), so who are your attackers? At what stage of the game do the attacks begin ? Are your attackers linked by a common religion which differs from yours, permanent alliance, or vassalage ? Most of all, where do you stand in the power ratings ?
     

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