Wonders - discuss all tweaks

[Blasphemous]

I saw there was no one place for all wonder tweak discussions and I thought there should be since I wanted to propose a couple.

My suggestion is that Stonehenge, the Oracle, the Parthenon, and other historically polytheistic wonders, be buildable only in cities with no religion in them.
Also, it doesn't make so much sense for Stonehenge to be in when the civ that historically should have it isn't around till long, long after it was historically created.

 

[Prestidigitator]

Agreed, and about historically 'correct' wonders, what are we gonna do about it?

I still prefer civs to be 'biased' towards certain wonders, to get more realism without hard-wiring things.
Babylon is more likely to build the Hanging Gardens
Egypt is more likely to build the Pyramids.
England is more likely to build the Globe Theatre... etc...

 

[HÄI]

Isn't Globe Theatre a national wonder? Sorry to nitpick

 

[Blasphemous]

I'm very strongly against hardwiring the civs' ability to build the wonders that were historically theirs. I do however think it's good to have the AI predisposed to build the right ones, and to use conditions to lower the prices in such a way that a civ in the correct historical situation (including resources and terrain) has an easier time building a wonder than a civ that's nothing like the one that really did build that wonder.

 

[dh_epic]

I'm not into hardwiring either. But I'm also wary of encouraging the AI to do something that might not be necessarily profitable. The best way to encourage the AI to build the appropriate wonders might be to give them advantages, not just giving them a preference.

Moreover, most of the ancient/classical wonders are either Greek or Egyptian. So there IS a balance concern with giving out too many advantages.

MISCELANEOUS

Hanging Gardens: Babylon (not in Civilization 4). Faster with Stone.
Chichen Itza: Mayan (not in Civilization 4). Faster with Stone.
Stonehenge: Unknown (Proto-Celtic?). Faster with Stone.

GREEK/HELLENISTIC

Colossus: Faster with Copper.
Great Lighthouse: Faster with Stone. <-- maybe drop the stone bonus.
The Oracle: Faster with Marble.
The Parthanon: Faster with Marble.

EGYPTIAN

Great Library: Faster with Marble. <-- maybe drop the marble bonus
The Pyramid: Faster with Stone.

-----------------------

Egypt might have enough of an advantage with being one of the first to spawn. Give them stone, in addition, and they'll be golden.

On the other hand, you could make all the Greek wonders marble-based, and give Greece marble. Also, because so many wonders are Greek, maybe this should just be tied to their UP.

 

[Prestidigitator]

I'm not into hardwiring either. But I'm also wary of encouraging the AI to do something that might not be necessarily profitable. The best way to encourage the AI to build the appropriate wonders might be to give them advantages, not just giving them a preference.
[...]
MISCELANEOUS

Hanging Gardens: Babylon (not in Civilization 4). Faster with Stone.
[...]

Epic, Babylon is going to be in Rhye's of Civilization after the release of Warlords. I'm now working on some of the assets for it .

 

[Methos]

Also, it doesn't make so much sense for Stonehenge to be in when the civ that historically should have it isn't around till long, long after it was historically created.

The problem here is no one knows for certain who created it.

Just a thought, but what if Stonehenge was turned into a unique resource? I'm not for sure how to do this nor am I sure what benefits one would receive for controlling it. Plus, how do you improve it to receive those benefits?

 

[Arkaeyn]

That's actually kind of a cool idea. Since we've got a permanent, real map, we can add little things like that. Have the "resources" of certain things appear at a certain time and give an extra science and cash to the square they're on.

 

[Blasphemous]

Putting Stonehenge in as a resource sounds too weird. Just take it out of the game, it's not an actual major wonder of the world anyhow, it's just a fascinating little artifact in England. If the Celts are put in it might be fair to have Stonehenge in, but not until then.

 

[ThePhiller]

How would one trade the stonehedge? And as a specific tile inprovement in england would be a little ... Idk, Overbearing if it was caried onto other regional artifacts... I vote it stays as a wonder.

 

[dh_epic]

Stonehenge as a resource doesn't make any sense.

Taking it out completely DOES make sense, but why would you want to, anyway?

 

[SilverKnight]

Stonehenge as a wonder at all is weird. I agree; it's just a mysterious structure that never played a major cultural role in any of the civs represented in RFC. But the Obelisk in every city bonus is tempting.

And why do the Pyramids confer all the government civics? With Egypt's UP, they're almost useless for Egypt. If anything, the Pyramids should give an obelisk in every city, and just ditch the "center world map" feature. Especially since the obelisk is becoming Egypt's unique building in Warlords, replaced by the monument. Make sense?

SilverKnight

 

[Arkaeyn]

I'm all for revamping, adding, and subtracting wonders, but it appears that that's outside the scope of the mod right now. Not sure why but I'd guess Rhye wants to get general balance stuff down first.