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Wonders Strategy

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by tmiddled, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. tmiddled

    tmiddled Chieftain

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    I'm trying to determine when to build wonders. I played a couple of games on king, built a number of wonders in each and all was fine. But I just tried my first game on emperor, and tried to build 3 or 4 wonders. Got over half way through each but someone always beat me to it.

    So, a couple of questions. You just loose all the lost production when someone beats you to a wonder, right?

    Also, is there any way to tell if a wonder is likely to be already in construction? Late game obviously if you are ahead on tech you are good to go, but early game I'm always behind. Are there certain wonders that AI's prefer? Do people just not build wonders on the higher difficulty levels?

    Cheers!
     
  2. Mahasona

    Mahasona Prince

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    I'll try and do the Pyramids if I can but otherwise too busy with other stuff.

    Wonders are mostly underpowered and too costly for me to bother with, except maybe a couple later on.
     
  3. NukeAJS

    NukeAJS King

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    The big disadvantage of wonders is that they'll often take up tiles that you would really want a district on. So you have to decide -- do a want a nice district place or a wonder. ME? I find that 9/10 I'd rather the better district location because most wonders aren't better than raw yields.

    I think if they really wanted to make wonders worth it, give some wonders +% yield increases like how Oxford has +20% science. % modifiers are quite rare so more wonders that have them would be useful and would specialize the city more.
     
  4. kampori

    kampori Warlord

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    Just build wonders on the most undesirable tiles. That's what I do. I aim for at least 1 wonder in each city. My capital usually has 6+.

    Early game, Pyramids are great. And if you can chop a few woods can be built very quickly. I always get Hanging Gardens as well. I usually build my first 2 wonders right after each other. I tend to go: scout > monument > settler > settler > worker > granary/water mill > wonder > wonder.

    Districts really aren't that important early game, especially if you've met some city states first. (In one game, I was on a continent on my own, with most of the CSs, so had a free envoy in each. 2 culture CS, 2 science CSs, 2 faith CSs, and an industrial CS. I didn't need to build a district until renaissance.)

    If you know where districts would be good to place, as said above use the least desirable tiles for wonders, when at all possible. If you're worried about not getting it in time, make sure to have some workers lying about, or hoard enough cash to buy 1-2 workers (300-600 gold isn't too much if you have commercial hubs, this is the only district I build ASAP). Chop some forests, and the wonder will be yours in 5-10 turns (for early wonders)

    Pyramids, Hanging Gardens, Oracle are good early wonders. Colosseum, Alhambra, Forbidden City are good mid-game. Big Ben, Eiffel Tower, Maracana Stadium are great late-game.

    So basically, I tend to build them after early game, whenever I have built any buildings (not districts) I have to build, and in between building new districts. If you build commercial hubs and industrial zones ASAP, and one good culture and science hub, you don't need any others for a long time. Any workers you need, can be bought with cash or built in new cities.
     
  5. Dicemechanic

    Dicemechanic Chieftain

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    This. There are a few good ones, but Great Person bonuses are often better than a second rate wonder.
     
  6. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I'll check when next playing, I'll try a Stonehenge build and update here if no-one else has. That is a fast easy test.

    Wonders can be wonderful or a waste of time. I now know many uses for many wonders and mostly situational. The value they give is not as good often as the tiles underneath but as said there is always rubbish ground and also adjacency bonuses and appeal to consider.

    I think for me the secret is to know which wonders suit your strategy. Then understand how much they will slow down your game length when building them. Finally but not least in importance I find there is a naturally good time to build them. As everyone should go for factories you do end up with wonder boosting great engineers which are wasted if you do not use them and really speed up build time.
     
    PeterChu likes this.
  7. ferenginar

    ferenginar Grand Nagus

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    Having lost 4 wonders, a few turns from completion in the same game, with no recovery of production, I'm not sure any of them are worth bothering with.
     
  8. Seabastian Civ

    Seabastian Civ King

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    I like the wonders that are harder to get in your capital simply because you need certain combos: Great Zimbabwe in particular seems easier for me to get when i have the cattle required.

    No fail cash means going for a wonder is a VERY risky proposition. Especially when you're looking at 30 turns or something. Those lost turns could be, say, 5 additional swordsmen, with which you can just go take the wonder :king:
     
  9. Aedn

    Aedn Chieftain

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    The AI largely prioritizes specific wonders, along with religion. This forces you to rush most of the early game wonders in order to get them. If you have a good setup for petra for example, if you do not get it by turn 80-90 one of the AI's will always build it on higher levels. this is pretty standard in civ games, the higher difficulty you go the less ability you have to build wonders, and its common to just steal them from the AI by capturing cities.


    People like pyramids because the AI typically does not go for it , compared to petra, stonehenge and the oracle. this allows you to focus on expansion and still build it in a reasonable time frame. If you want a contested wonder, you need to plan on it from turn one, and put it into your build order and overall strategic plans.
     
  10. CoconutTank

    CoconutTank Unapologetic Warmonger Supporter

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    Sort of related, but how often do folks pick the Autocracy gov't? That and Theocracy are probably the gov't choices that I'm least likely to pick. The few times I went Autocracy, I couldn't really tell if the wonder production bonus actually mattered or not.
     
  11. AmtrakQuebec

    AmtrakQuebec King

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    You know that place by the other place...
    Theocracy is killer if you have lots of Religion and you want to build a major army with Faith virtually instantly...

    then your competition is left wondering WTF just happened to them lol
     
  12. CaiusDrewart

    CaiusDrewart King

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    Autocracy is definitely the worst of the three I think. Military slots are weak in comparison to economic slots, especially post-patch. The fact that you have to give up your wild card slot if you want the +2 envoys to city states policy hurts a lot, too. I'd have a really hard time not taking Oligarchy over this (if I'm fighting) or Classical Republic (if I'm not). Maybe if there were literally no attractive city states on the map so you didn't want a diplomatic slot, but even then, I'd probably prefer Classical Republic.

    As for OP's question about wonders, on Deity I'm noticing only two wonders consistently go very early: Stonehenge and the Oracle. The timing of every other wonder in the game varies massively. Sometimes Pyramids, Terra Cotta Army, and the Colosseum are built in the Classical Era; sometimes they're still around in the Industrial. This is probably a result of the terrain requirements system.
     
  13. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

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    I've always been a wonder-driven player, so I build as many as I can. In my current Immortal game, I got Hanging Gardens (weirdly missed Oracle because it went before Stonehenge somehow), Great Lighthouse, Collosus, Mahaldi Temple, and am starting on Great Library now.
     
  14. Toteetaller

    Toteetaller Chieftain

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    I wish Wonders were more impactful somehow.
    There are now so many and in the end game you just build whatever. A more strategic use of the wonders and some special effects and if possible a limit to the number constructed by city would be most welcome.
     
  15. Helmling

    Helmling Philosopher King

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    I think them taking up a whole tile is problematic, to be sure.

    Oh, and what is with the build times for late-game wonders!?!
     
  16. Francis Xavier

    Francis Xavier Chieftain

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    Late game wonders take forever to build. Often see turn times like 30-40 turns even in cities with tons of regional power plant bonuses.

    I mostly get one or two wonders on Deity. Hanging Gardens is pretty safe. Ruhr Valley is a great shot to go after. But you definitely have to commit to redirecting trade routes and (if you have the right engineers) rushing them because if you lose out you lose the whole production cycle which can be very...disappointing. Overall I've found getting wonders in Deity Civ VI easier and more refreshing than Deity / Immortal Civ V, because of the unique requirements for each wonder, the AI usually can't just spam build them.

    A lot of the wonders though, you won't be missing the wonders if you miss out. Hanging Gardens is Great. Ruhr Valley is amazing. Venetian Arsenal on water maps is insanely great. Petra is really, really good for a mostly desert city, but it's a risky proposition because the AI tends to snag it up pretty often (and usually for a city with like, 3 desert tiles) and if you fail it in that mostly desert city, the only purpose of that city now is an industrial and entertainment district to provide regional bonuses.
     
  17. topresch

    topresch Warlord

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    I agree it's often a risky and unrewarding venture, which I think is very sad. I loved to get a wonder in the earlier games, and loved their uniqueness - the special feeling of building the world's only [wonder], with a corresponding movie or animation - and special bonuses they provided.
     
  18. trojan13

    trojan13 Chieftain

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    There is a gossip system for more information. Send delegates, send trade route, then you will see popups about what activity AI is doing such as starting builiding wonders. France is nice in this aspect because you can see those wonder information by sending delegates + leader ability iirc.
     
  19. AmtrakQuebec

    AmtrakQuebec King

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    There should be a Wonders district.
     
  20. KrzTeKILL

    KrzTeKILL Chieftain

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    I usually just wait until no one's built it then snap it up way after the fact. So hanging gardens in Renaissance or something and it only takes 10 turns.

    It's just not worth the risk trying to race the AI, you need to direct your research towards it, redirect trade routes, prioritize production... when instead you could get 5-10 military units... it's just not worth it. Stonehenge? Just build a holy district and then do that production into Great Person point thingy.

    Somehow they made Wonders blow, I can't believe it.

    Colosseum is worth pursuing especially, but you need an amenities district........ so I never end up getting it (unless no one else has built it).

    This is all different if your pursuing a culture victory, then your entire game becomes wonder chasing and it's the most stressful I've ever done.
     

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