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Wonders you can't get

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Xoon, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. Xoon

    Xoon Warlord

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    I find there is almost no way to beat the computer to Pyramids. Also Great Lighthouse is almost always grabbed by a computer tribe. Anyone else notice this? Or do I just not gun for them fast enough?
     
  2. Dismal

    Dismal Boo

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    I've gotten the both a number of times. The key is to gun for them early and to have the res to speed them up (stone etc.)
     
  3. Dr. Yoshi

    Dr. Yoshi Emperor of the Universe

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    Yes, it really does help if you have stone. If you absolutely must have the Pyramids then get Masonry ASAP.
     
  4. cleverhandle

    cleverhandle King

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    What level do you play on? I've never been beaten to Pyramids on Emperor if I have either Industrious or Stone. I think the best I've done was 1000BC, but I've still gotten them as late as the 700's. Chopping and pop-rushing are pretty key in ensuring yourself the Pyramids. Whatever the circumstance, they get started immediately after the second settler goes out and I make sure to have mines prepared and workers available for chopping.

    As for Lighthouse, I think it's actually the easiest wonder to get if you really push for it because the required techs are so early. But it's not worth trying for if you're trying to squeeze it in after other wonders or choose to delay Sailing and Masonry for other techs. You have to decide early on that you want to go the seafaring/Lighthouse route and really go for it.
     
  5. DrewBledsoe

    DrewBledsoe Veteran QB

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    There's a tactic that works if you have enough forests around you , and research Bronze Working immediately, and that's a) build worker, b) use worker to chop another worker and group workers, chop c) half a dozen warriors, and use them to "mark" future cities, then chop half a dozen settlers, from various locations, chop a couple more workers from new cities, and group 4 workers back to capitol to chop whatever wonders you want..since the AI doesnt ever seem to use forests intentionally in this way , its a huge advantage...(in fact even though I use it all the time..I'm starting to think it better if chopped forests didn't count towards wonders , a la civ III)
     
  6. gettingfat

    gettingfat Emperor

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    Pyramid can be had even at Emperor, but it sometimes depends on how many industrious AI leaders you face, and whether they have stone. One time Napolean took me by surprise got it around 1200 BC. Do it only when your leader is industrious and/or hooked up with stone. Otherwise it's not worth it IMHO.

    This is my way to do it (Somebody may have better way). Plan ahead, pick a city with a couple of mines possible. Forest chopping is almost a must, so once you identify the city, spare some forests for the Pyramid. (depending on the time, if it's early 1 forest generates only 30 hammers, if it's late one forest may give you 75 or so, forests far away give you less. 4 trees near city to me is almost a minimum) Allow the city to grow a little bit so those high production tiles can be used. Send the workers to chop, preferrably chop those forests outside the culture border near the closest AI civ first if they are available (basically to steal forests from the AIs). Just make sure they are escorted by warriors or archers. Organized religon also helps if that city has the state religion.

    Sometimes if you lose the competition. That's fine. You make some cash. The worst case is you devote too much resources on building it, and your army is too weak and you have an aggressive neighbour. Make sure you have some cities to pump out archers or axes just in case.
     
  7. GIDS888

    GIDS888 King

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    Absolutely.

    Find stone, get masonry and bronze-working pronto, chop some workers and build that quarry!

    and it isn't easy then, but that's the fun isn't it!
     
  8. jlindy

    jlindy Death From Below

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    Another alternative is to simply build an army and capture the city that beat you to it:mischief:
     
  9. jpowers

    jpowers Emperor

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    Civ III players got into the habit of setting a city to build a big wonder and then forgetting about it, since you couldn't use trees/money/slaves to rush it. In Civ IV you can't get Wonders that way unless they come from a tech you've gotten ahead of everyone else. For the early Wonders, you need to plan everything out ahead of time and commit your whole empire to their construction. For Pyramids, once you have that first settler to go found another city for military or workers, you need to set your capital on Pyramids, chop like crazy and build a few mines as the city grows.
     
  10. SlipperyJim

    SlipperyJim Prince

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    Slightly off-topic, but I'm working hard at breaking my wonder addiction. Civ4 wonders are nice, but they're hardly game-breaking. There's ways to compensate for virtually any "missed" wonder.... That said, I do like the Pyramids. Early access to UniSuff is nice, and it never hurts to get some Great Engineer points.

    As others have said, get Stone and/or play an Industrious leader. If that fails, grab your axe and start chopping.

    (As an aside: Why does chopping trees help you build the Pyramids? Great bloody masses of stone and so forth ... they're not made out of wood!)
     
  11. Cosine

    Cosine Chieftain

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    Boston MA
    I chop the pyramids all the time. Access to the civics early allows me to choose different tech paths later on.

    Logs were used in the construction of the pyramids. The great blocks of stone were rolled into place on top of dowels cut from trees. As the block was pushed, the logs would migrate out from under the back of the block, then were brought to the front to continue the process.
     
  12. TheVampire

    TheVampire Chieftain

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    The logs they rolled the stones on, carts they carried them in, scaffolding, etc.

    But, as you've mentioned, the wonders in Civ4 seem to not have as much of an effect. My latest game, playing on Prince level, I've gotten almost all of the wonders so far due to chopping and good resources. Stonehenge, Parth, Pyramids, H Gardens, Lighthouse, Collossus, Notre Dame, Chichen Itza ( however you spell it.. ) and founded Hinduisim and got the holy city, tech spending at 90 or 100% throughout, and yet I'm STILL at the back of the pack for tech levels. ( and in mid position on the scores ) I did miss getting the Oracle, Ankor Wat, Sistine Chapel and Great Library though.

    However, I got culture flowing out of every orafice possible!

    Playing as Gandi helps with the IND rating, and the fast worker for extra good chopping effect.

    I was stuck on a rather large continent by myself though. Now that I've just made contact with most of the other civs, I'm rapidly catching up in tech. I've neglected my army until now, and been using pacifisim as a civic to up my Great Person output. Once I start seeing Galleons then I'll switch to Theology and more army output.

    And I did manage to circumnavigate the globe first on the huge map, even though almost all of the other civs had a caravel built many turns before I did. That +1 movement helps my navy be able to better intercept any incoming invasions.

    I won the last two Prince levels I played on huge map and epic speed. One diplo victory that I got my best score ever ( Hammurabi ) and one culture. If I win this one I'll step up the difficulty a notch and see how I do.
     
  13. AngryPants

    AngryPants Warlord

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    What difficulty are you playing on? And how picky are you about snagging some stone with your starting location?
     
  14. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    In my current game (Marthon, Huge continents, Monarch), I've got the smallest land area of all the civs, and I've got the least number of cities. But I am way ahead in techs, and it's all thanks to my great wonders. The Pyramids (representation), The Great Library, and Notre Dame combine to make all of my specialists extra powerful.
    And by the way, I got the Pyramids without stone or Industrious. Maybe it wasn't worth it. I probably wouldn't be the smallest civ if I didn't go for it. But it goes to show that it can be done.
     
  15. andrew_yaweb

    andrew_yaweb Chieftain

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    (As an aside: Why does chopping trees help you build the Pyramids? Great bloody masses of stone and so forth ... they're not made out of wood!)[/QUOTE]

    It is a good question. Even with Masonry, there's no way to 'chop' a quarry to rush a wonder, even if it volunataring ruins it. But more seriously, perhaps it simply represents a re-allocation of resources. Chop the forest and you build houses and other construction easier, leaving more production resources free for your wonder. Granted it may not be stone your hurriny directly, you are helping your production indirectly.
     
  16. nyonix

    nyonix Chieftain

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    Industrious+stone+chop with those 3 u just cant miss it, just dont wait too long.
     
  17. Xoon

    Xoon Warlord

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    I gather that automating my workers is not really the way to go? So being lazy and being competent at Civ IV are mutually exclusive?

    Sigh, I guess I'll just have to resign myself to getting my butt kicked on Prince
     
  18. Nilrim

    Nilrim Warlord

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    Also doesn't Organized religion reduce build time of buildings by 50% I think that includes most Wonders.


    EDIT ADDED: I just looked at the tech tree. "cities with state relgion construct buildings 25% faster"
    I would think that inculdes Wonders.
     
  19. karadoc

    karadoc AI programmer

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    The automation is better than in Civ 3; but still, a human could do better. Think of it this way: On any difficulty higher than Noble, the human player is handicapped. So the human player must play better than the AI just to be equal with them; and obviously, the AI will not control your workers better than it controls its own workers.
     
  20. Bushface

    Bushface Deity

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    Chopping a forest to get hammers seems a bit odd to me, but I must remember that hammers in Civ4 are merely a symbol for production, mustn't I.
    But will somebody tell me how I can chop forests (note the plural) when my early cities never seem to get more than one forest tile within reach ? All too frequently I find myself starting in the middle of plains with desert patches, the odd hill, and not a river in sight. Either that, or I'm stuck at the thin end of a carrot-shaped landmass.(Noble, pangaea,temperate, sea level either low or normal - I like lots of spreading room)
     

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