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Wonders you never build

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Wojciech_R, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Wojciech_R

    Wojciech_R Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Messages:
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    Just small survey:

    Wonder you almoust never build?
    Doesn't necessarly mean bad, but just not fitting your playstyle.

    For me that would be:

    1. Great Lighthouse (I am never playing on small archipelagos)
    2. Brandenburg gate - if I warmonger - I already have great general.
    3. Penthagon - just usless
     
  2. meatpardle

    meatpardle Warlord

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    I have quite a rigid wonder plan that rarely fluctuates (playing archipelago or heavy desert will alter it).

    I usually aim for Hanging Gardens - Parthenon or Oracle - Notre Dame - Sistene Chapel - Louvre - Eiffel Tower - Hubble.

    If I'm playing archipelago or heavy coastal I'll go great Lighthouse and Colossus instead of HG, if heavy desert the probably skip HG and go for Petra (definitely if playing as Arabia).

    I rarely build any religious or military wonders, and never bother with the Great Library or Pyramids even though they have great benefits (too much of a commitment too early).

    Angkor Wat and Red Fort seem particularly useless to me as I rarely buy tiles or build defensive buildings.
     
  3. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2013
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    1,244
    Location:
    Lille, France
    Defensive wonders :
    - Great Wall
    - Himeji Castle
    - Red Fort
    - Great Firewall

    Useless.
     
  4. phillipwyllie

    phillipwyllie Wannabe Deity

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    Location:
    4 Hexes from FoY
    Great Library
     
  5. komodowaran

    komodowaran Warlord

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    Great Wall is the best offensive Wonder in the Game and if u play Multiplayer with good Players it's normaly so highly contested that in most of the games it get's GE with liberty finisher or banned
     
  6. Vesslan

    Vesslan Chieftain

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    Dec 21, 2015
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    Globe theatre, Uffizi, Louvre and the other cultural ones. Those I prefer to get the other way with slots already filled. (I play almost always war and diplo games.)
     
  7. Wojciech_R

    Wojciech_R Chieftain

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    May I ask why?
     
  8. KevinLandwaster

    KevinLandwaster Chieftain

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    I always build the great firewall. Even with a special agent and a constabulary in my capital, they still manage to steal my tech.

    I've never built petra, although it is good in some circumstances. Now that I'm playing in Emperor difficulty, I don't try to build the great library anymore. Recently I was shocked when Wu Zetian built the hubble telescope before I was even done researching satellites (but I digress). I don't think I've ever built the Louvre, except maybe that one time when I did a culture victory. Yeah, I'm a newbie - so what? We all were at one point.
     
  9. GenjiKhan

    GenjiKhan Emperor

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    It makes any warring attempt at your civ a nightmare, even if you have to deal with 2 or more players against you .
     
  10. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

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    Dude movement penalty for enemies inside your territory is quite huge.

    Take a city from enemy and that city now have great wall effect applied to it and enemies will have even harder time retaking the city from you. Its one of better wonders.

    And it can allow you to hold off bigger forces than normal.
     
  11. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    I was under the impression that Wojciech_R was asking komodowaran why he/she considered the Great Wall to be the "best offensive wonder in the game" when it is clearly a defensive wonder.

    Also, this thread isn't about best and worst wonders, it's about which one you never build. The Great Library, for instance, is an awesome wonder - but it is hardly worth the opportunity cost of investing so many hammers into it that early in the game when you could just build a regular library and then other more useful stuff like a Settler or Worker.

    Also, I think the Great Firewall is a very good wonder, but my games are usually over long before I have a chance to build it.
     
  12. LyricalAssassin

    LyricalAssassin Warlord

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    Stonehenge, Pyramids, most early wonders really. Ancient and Classical wonders slow you down, so I only build one or two max.
     
  13. Wojciech_R

    Wojciech_R Chieftain

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    Exactly what I meant.
    I never played multiplayer, so I am not aware of any advanced strategies there.
    (Clearly I am also missing stuff from SP:) )
     
  14. docbud

    docbud Emperor

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    That may be true--but getting the GL means you can get philosophy very early and get the National College quickly.

    And by doing that, you can research other techs you need.

    If you just go library, then you have to ignore other techs to rush philosophy.

    But that's me, and I only play for fun. I seem to have better luck with the game by going one city + GL + NC, then settling additional cities. If not, I struggle too much with happiness and gold by trying to get three cities and NC by turn 100. It's usually more like turn 110 or 120. And that also depends upon barb activity.
     
  15. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    The problem with NC early requires building libraries in every cities you have at that point, and delaying expo is bad for most games.
     
  16. Aea

    Aea Prince

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    Okay so this is (much more) a multiplayer perspective, but I agree with you even when it comes to just growing or setting yourself back slightly for an amazing wonder.

    I will typically aim to settle three cities (including my capital) before I even think of opening Philosophy, and think that people who really 'rush' National College are neglecting more important things by not understanding how small of a bonus it is.

    You basically have two sources of science (unless you have a science pantheon, playing maya, or have a caravan): Palace and Library in your early game. Palace gives you +3 Science, Library gives you 0.5 Science per citizen.

    This means if you have a pop 4 city when you start your library you're going to waste quite a few turns to get ... 2 Science per turn. Pop 8 (maybe a nice capital) would be looking at an additional 4 Science per turn. This is irrelevant amounts of science, and it out-strips your potential to produce. You can't really use that extra science unless you really need a far-off wonder because you're still sitting on a fat stack of things you need to finish beforehand. Your capital would gain another 8 Science from building National College (if you already have a Library, which is much cheaper). Again, it just doesn't give you anything hugely substantial because you need the growth to really make use of those new buildings, units, wonders, etc.

    Even if you're just looking at a 3 City NC like I often am, you're better off spending that production on Granaries, Caravans, Workers, Defense, etc, etc before looking at Philosophy. Because those bigger cities are just going to catch up on the "early birds" due to their larger size, and quicker production for Libraries and the NC.

    Early game food is unbelievably important and you need to grow large cities or expand (in case you're more liberty focused) before investing in science. You're also going to waste a lot less on maintenance if you stack your queue to complete all of your libraries at the same time. Extra brownie points if the turn your Libraries complete you finish Philosophy.
     
  17. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    Caravans/cargo ships to AI on high difficulty also provides significant science, equal to how many tech they have that you don't have. In some cases it is more than the amount of science you can produce from cities.
     
  18. Aea

    Aea Prince

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    Ah so that's the logic, useful to know.
     
  19. elniallo

    elniallo Chieftain

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    I've been playing a lot of immortal games recently, so generally even if I wanted early wonders you have to be lucky to get them. So I generally don't bother.
     
  20. Primacide

    Primacide Settler

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    Red fort: why on earth would I waste mid game hammers on a buff to city defenses... which I then also have to build? If my game-winning strategy is to beat the AI against my cities, I've got a serious problem.
     

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