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Wonders you never build

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Wojciech_R, Jan 7, 2016.

  1. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    Once you start going up in difficulty most Wonders you'll never build either because the AI will get them first or because the opportunity cost to build them is so high that it isn't worth it.
     
  2. Illianor123

    Illianor123 Warlord

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    Or just more pop growth. 1 science per pop.

    On topic
    Great Mosque of Djenne and Uffizi, because I never take the relevant social policies.
    Pentagon and great firewall, too late.
    Globe theatre, too busy with leaning tower, Sistine, porcelain, and Taj Mahal.
     
  3. chuckh89

    chuckh89 Prince

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    I get it,...but you get Great Scientist points,....a high population capital with all the Science Wonders. Good Stuff!



    Also,...I wouldn't put Great Wall on that list

    If someone else builds the Great Wall it's going to slow down your conquest (and if someone has it, they think they are "sitting pretty", and they are less likely to hand over their stuff),...
    So,...Really, the main reason I build it,...is to prevent someone else from getting it,...
    plus it is a nice feature when there are faith mongers running missionaries into your borders (and they get nailed by attrition do to the lack of movement).

    Also, NOT Brandenburg Gate.....
    I Never have enough Great Generals, and a majority of them I don't use for warmongering.

    In most games expanding my borders improves my win times,...Coal, Aluminum,...sometimes Uranium. And, if you can expand to get an additional free resource to increase happiness/trade, or trigger a "WLTK Day",...All the better. If your using "Swords into Plowshares" to compliment your Science Victory, your not going to have a lot of Generals around and it's nice to drop one on something you need in the late game.

    Many people have different goals when they play, some wonders that are useless in one game may be valuable in another(Obviously Pyramids is more valuable in a Marathon game than Standard or Quick), if you always play with the same setup then your going to have a stronger bias than someone that is constantly mixing up their parameters.

    After all is said and done, a lot of the late stuff,...Great Firewall, Pentagon are the obvious ones IMHO, Angkor Wat needs to be a earlier in the game to be worth the effort.
     
  4. vra379971

    vra379971 Deity

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    It applies in SP too.

    Its an offensive wonder despite its defensive reputation etc, because of the practical effect it has on your military options. You are officially playing a different game on land that all other players.

    Your military needs to keep your lands safe drops dramatically, freeing you to use those troops in offensive ways. Or of course, not using them at all.

    But the offensive value of the Wall is not a straight up buff, but rather one of poltical capital and opportunity cost.
     
  5. meatpardle

    meatpardle Warlord

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    That makes sense, but can't you use that logic to claim any defensive wonder/bonus gives an offensive benefit, and therefore is an offensive wonder/bonus?

    I think in basic terms people refer to it as a defensive wonder as it affects performance on your territory/when defending while offensive wonders affect performance when attacking other's territory/cities. Indirectly one may affect the other (less defending units required means more available to attack and vice versa) but the direct benefits of the Great Wall are in a defensive capacity.
     
  6. chuckh89

    chuckh89 Prince

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    I agree it is categorized as a defensive wonder,...But really it is just a play on words and of course the expression "The best Offense is a excellent Defense" is common in our society.

    I live in Chicago, and believe me,...the Chicago Bears had many games where the defense scored more points than their offense (They have been historically terrible over the years).

    And REALLY, I have had unbelievable cities when the opponent is dead before he can even reach my workable tiles, and I had nothing but a garrisoned unit as my entire army. So, if the Great Wall can kill a entire army without a single shot being made,...I will give VRA the expression "Offense" to use freely for describing this Wonder.

    Seize Towers are one of the strongest offensive weapons in the early game (Seize means - Take hold of, possess, attack),...Surround your city with them leveled up,...excellent Defensive Weapon.
     
  7. Memoryjar

    Memoryjar Emperor

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  8. shaglio

    shaglio The Prince of Dorkness

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    By that line of thinking, the Colossus is a great offensive wonder because it generates more gold that can be used on unit maintenance allowing you to field a larger army. :crazyeye:
     
  9. whoward69

    whoward69 DLL Minion

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    It's more offensive that that.

    Attack a city, capture it, all the city tiles are now yours. All the remaining enemy units are now at a serious movement disadvantage - regardless of whether they are trying to mount a counter-attack or retreat to their nearest (and presumably your next target) city. Which means you get to cut them down in the open. Rinse and repeat.
     
  10. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    Great Mosque is actually pretty decent for what it does. An extra missionary spread is pretty damn useful if you're intending to play a religous cultural victory game (It's sorta like an extra enhancer belief). It works better of course if you combine it with other Missionary enhancing beliefs.
    The free Mosque saves 200 faith right there.
    Also +6 faith per turn
    +3 culture
    +1 happiness
    +1 Engineer Point

    Also a hidden benefit. If you buy Great Prophets (Industrial era onwards) in this city they'll get 5 spreads. I believe you can even use one spread and then plant him as a Holy Site - as they still have the 4 original spreads that are unused.

    Colossus is situational but very useful for military civs (for gold) or if you want to have fun with a trade based game.
    For instance play Morocco (with their UA), and have a well positioned coastal capital (in easy reach from other civs) with the Colossus, an early market and an early East India Company. If you build roads radiating out into other civs territories you can be earning huge sums of gold from outside trade routes - it's quite fun. I think I did this once and I got to 100gpt from all the caravans and cargo ships I was getting from other civs.
     
  11. komodowaran

    komodowaran Warlord

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    The Great Wall prevent's enemy generals from planting a citadel since they wil not have any movement left if they walk in to it
    how ever the player with great wall can just walk and plant citadels and take over enemy citadels this way and those "citadels are close to imposible to take back"
    so basicly u can take over any citadels with your generals u wan't but the enemy can't take your citadels back since they wil not have movement because of GW

    for that reason an attack from a player with GW and some generals is nearly imposible to stop

    thats why i consider GW the best offensive wonder in the game
     
  12. Makenshi

    Makenshi Ahoy, ye salty dogs!

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    Wonder I never get no matter what? Great Mosque, because I never play Piety. Great Wall because I always lose it no matter what. Mausoleum of Halicarnassus because I never got a start that screams "OMG I GOTTA GET IT".

    That said, I always combo GL + Oracle, because that way my civ is the only in the world able to produce a GS until universities. That means 1 or 2 academies before anyone else, which puts me 1 age ahead of everyone by renaissance. At that point I heard wonders until the game is over.

    But then again, I'm a king level player, so please Deity masters don't judge me :)

    Before I have the tech lead which allows me to hoard wonders, however, I lose most of the early wonders, unless for some reason the AI decides not to get them. Then again, I use mods these days, like "wonder production refund", so if I lose them it is not so traumatic to try almost all.

    Of course, depending on the civ I'm using and city placement, there are some I actively aim after the GL + Oracle combo is secured: G. Lighthouse, Colossus, Petra, etc.
     
  13. Puhi

    Puhi Warlord

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    So far I've never built..

    Because the AI gets them too quickly:
    Great Library, Great Wall, Parthenon

    Because they seem not worth the investment:
    Statue of Zeus, Terracotta Army, Alhambra, Himeji Castle, Red Fort
     
  14. Aea

    Aea Prince

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    Alhambra is god-like.
     
  15. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    Actually the real buff for Brandenburg is the +15 XP on units. This lets you train units with that start with 60 XP (having all 3 military buildings), meaning they get 3 promotions from the start (you can get planes with air repair, ships with range, etc). It's a really good buff if you don't go for Autocracy with Total War.

    To get on topic: I almost never build Terracotta Army and Statue of Zeus.
     
  16. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    Yeah Brandenburg Gate is an awesome Wonder. You'll want it in a city with the Heroic Epic. If you have Alhambra and Autocracy's experience bonus then its even more ridiculous.

    Also not mentioned is that it gives you a whopping + 2 Great Scientist Points. Think about that for a moment - that is nearly a free Scientist specialist.
     
  17. Redaxe

    Redaxe Emperor

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    Well if you ever do decide to try some Diety games - even for a bit of fun, these maps are good for a MoH although many seasoned players will argue that it isn't worth the cost of building.

    The China map below is fairly easy. If you want to try the MoH, just make sure you worker steal as their are plenty of forests to chop.
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=541394


    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=559515
     
  18. PaaVi

    PaaVi Chieftain

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    Great Wall is something I never build on Civ 5. I don't even know why I don't build it.
     
  19. Red Menace

    Red Menace Prepare to be Menaced

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    stop asking questions.
    Wonders I never build:

    Terracotta Army, Angkor Wat, Statue of Zeusman, and the Parthenon.

    I almost never build the Parthenon because its almost always gone by turn 80 but if I can I will get it.

    Wonders I MUST BUILD EVERYGAME OR ELSE

    Temple of Artemis.
     
  20. sunbeam

    sunbeam Warlord

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    I've always thought of Angkor Wat as one of the best wonders in the game.

    One day I am going to play Shoshone and get that wonder.
     

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