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Wonders

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall of the Greek World' started by Arkaeyn, Oct 1, 2009.

  1. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Going through the current tech tree, we have lots of wonders which don't belong, even with the tech tree only going halfway. So this thread is for wonder-based brainstorming. Replacements, new wonders, etc.


    First, a list of the ancient/classical/early medieval wonders. Many of these are out of the geographic or timeline scope of the mod.

    KEEP

    Great Lighthouse
    The Parthenon
    Pyramids
    The Oracle
    Colossus
    The Statue of Zeus
    Hanging Gardens
    The Great Library
    Mausoleum of Mausollos
    The Temple of Artemis
    Colosseum
    The Hagia Sophia


    REPLACE

    Great Wall
    Apostolic Palace
    The Leaning Tower
    Shwedagon Paya
    Wat Preah Pisnulok
    Moai Statues
    Temple of Kulukan
     
  2. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Wiki wonder link: http://rhye.civfanatics.net/wiki/index.php?title=Wonders


    How to read this: Normally typed wonders are the same as they were in RFC. Italicized wonders are pre-existing wonders with changes. Underlined are totally new wonders.


    Great Lighthouse
    The Parthenon
    Pyramids
    The Oracle
    Colossus
    The Statue of Zeus
    Hanging Gardens
    The Great Library
    Mausoleum of Mausollos
    Colosseum
    The Hagia Sophia
    The Temple of Artemis
    Ishtar Gate
    The Great Sphinx
    The Academy
    The Great Arch (Taq-i Kisra)
    The House of the New Year (Yazilikaya)
    The Gate of All Nations
    Sebastos Harbor



    SUGGESTIONS - starred are within both the time period and an in-game civ

    Knossos Labyrinth
    Bethlehem
    Marib Dam
    Hadrian's Wall*
    Royal Road*
    Academy of Gundishapur*
    Catacombs of Kom el Shoqafa*
    Obelisk of Axum
    Temple of Ramesses*
    Naqsh-e Rustam*
    Temple of Seti I*
    El Deir at Petra*
    Hypogeum of Ħal-Saflieni
    Baalbek*
    Luxor_Temple*
    Fortress of Mycenae
    Fortress of Sargon
    Didymaion*
    Nemrud Dagi
    The Long Walls*
    The Great Ziggurat of Ur
    First Code of Laws*
    Masada*
    Karnak Complex*
    The Olympic Games*
     
  3. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Although there shouldn't be a Great Wall, Hadrian's Wall could have a similar effect - perhaps protecting the city instead of the civilization from barbarian attacks?

    The Great Sphinx is a worthwhile wonder, although it's yet another Egyptian wonder.

    Plato's Academy is another decent idea, available with Philosophy.

    The Marib Dam of Yemen was an ancient wonder, though not labeled as a Wonder. Like Stonehenge, it would be on the map, though wouldn't necessarily have a civilization attached to it. That said, Yemenese independents could be programmed to make an attempt for it. Available with Logging, acts as a granary in all cities?


    The wonder list is pretty heavily weighted towards Greece, Rome, and Egypt. It might be fun to look for better middle eastern wonders.
     
  4. AlexanderGreat4

    AlexanderGreat4 Chieftain

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    There could be Persepolis as a wonder. Or at least some of the structures within it.
     
  5. My Pet Hamster

    My Pet Hamster Just hangin'

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    I think there should be a Newgrange wonder.

    Acts like the pyramids, but also adds health +1 per population.:cool:

    ...It could happen...:p
     
  6. ZachScape

    ZachScape Chieftain

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  7. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    What is Bethlehem supposed to be/do? I mean, the Church of the Nativity and the founding of Christianity are already in the game, so I'm not sure what additional wonder can be added.
     
  8. Steb

    Steb Chieftain

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    It's quite normal to have a Greek/Egyptian predominance in this mod; thus I support the inclusion of the Academy and Sphinx. I'm not sure about Stonehenge and the Marib dam, I'm not sure they are particularly relevant, but the latter could be an interesting choice. Newgrange is way too early and located in Ireland (not on the map, except if one of those weird islands in the north is actually the Emerald one) anyway.

    I support something from Persepolis. Gate of All Nations? 100-Column Palace? or Apadana?
    And add Ishtar Gate too, of course.
     
  9. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    The Gate of All Nations sounds like the most Wonder-style monument from Persepolis. Skimming through various wikipedia city links, the Taq-i Kisra also fits the time period and the geography.

    The Royal Road might also be an interesting choice. Graphically, maybe it could be represented by the paved roads of later eras, and it could double trade routes or something of the sort.


    I was looking for Phoenician or Carthaginian wonder-style constructions, but the closest thing I could find was the causeway of Tyre...built by Alexander to conquer the city. Doesn't quite work.

    The Great Ziggurat of Ur would be a valid choice.
     
  10. Steb

    Steb Chieftain

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    I don't know about the Royal Road, it just seems like worker-built roads to me, not a great monument built in a city. However it would be nice to have a wonder that increases road movement.

    I just came up with an idea: have a somewhat late National Wonder called National Road Infrastructure, so that everyone can build it. It increases road movement just like the Roman UP in RFC. It would be great for expansionist empires without being limited to Rome and would somehow replace the railroads.
     
  11. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academy_of_Gundishapur

    How about adding that in? It was included as Persia's unique Oxford University in Unique National Wonders mod, from which it can be easily extracted. Its effect could be +2 Free Scientists while the Great Library's effect could be changed to +100%:gp: birth-rate. (I always figured it should have that effect. People are free to disagree with me, however.)
     
  12. The Q-Meister

    The Q-Meister Chieftain

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    Great ideas from ...everyone!

    I support the Sphinx as there are far more Greek/Roman than Egyptian even with this inclusion

    Definitely need a couple Middle Eastern wonders: The Gate of All Nations and Academy of Gudhisapur seem like good choices.

    National wonder for Road Construction with possibly the name "Royal Road" or "Imperial Road" sounds good as well.

    If we need room how about taking the Hagia Sophia out? It wasn't fully constructed until after 500AD anyway, though I don't mind it being in.
     
  13. Disenfrancised

    Disenfrancised Beep Beep

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    Suggestions, going through all the regional, temporally, and size/effort appropriate megalithic sites:
    Ishtar Gate
    Catacombs of Kom el Shoqafa
    Obelisk of Axum (Though the actual one is 4 century AD they've were building them since at least the 7th BC)
    Temple of Ramesses
    Naqsh-e Rustam (also includes the Naqsh-e Rajab)
    Temple of Seti I
    El Deir at Petra
    Hypogeum of Ħal-Saflieni (its in Malta, where there are many Megalith Temples)
    Baalbek
    Dol-de-Bretagne Menhir
    Luxor_Temple
    Fortress of Mycenae
    Göbekli_Tepe
    Fortress of Sargon
    Nergal Gate (most ornamental gate in Ninevah)
    Sebastos Harbor
    Didymaion
    Nemrud Dagi
    Yazılıkaya
    The Long Walls

    Thinking up some possible attributes for them...
     
  14. The Q-Meister

    The Q-Meister Chieftain

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    wow can't believe I didn't think of this one, great choice! :goodjob: plus its in an area that's under-represented right now.
     
  15. Disenfrancised

    Disenfrancised Beep Beep

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    Ideas:

    Yazılıkaya - Hittite temple where the gods of other cultures are shown in procession:
    -High Culture boost, no resistance in captured cities.
    The Long Walls - famous Athenian defenses.
    - 100% defense boost to this city, +100% trade route income, needs harbour
    Sebastos Harbor - largest man-made harbour, built by Herod in Israel.
    - Moai Statues ability? or some sort of trade or ship production boost
    Nemrud Dagi - complex with huge statues of various gods built in Anatolia after the Selecuid defeat
    - Sistine Chapel ability?
    The Didymaion - built in Ionia to house the oracle of Apollo
    - Apollo was the god of colonies and disease, so 1/2 extra health in this city + Forbidden Palace effect
    Nergal Gate - representative of Ninevah
    - High culture and some sort of military boost, perhaps giving all new units in this city Drill I?
    Hypogeum of Ħal-Saflieni - incredably ancient Maltese temple
    - One of the first wonders in the game, small boost of +2/3 happiness and culture to give an early leg up to whoever builds it.
    Luxor_Temple - fancy pants egyptian temple complex
    - Notre Dame ability
    Fortress of Sargon - powerful and artistic defense for a city
    - Chichen Itza ability
    Göbekli Tepe - even older neolithic holy site with animal carvings
    - If can be coded, have you units always win vs animals, otherwise the inversion of Hal-Saflieni, providing a few health and culture for an early boost.
    Dol-de-Bretagne Menhir - Archetypical Celtic standing stone
    - Happiness or culture boost to monuments, or give it the current RFC pyramid ability and give the Pyramids something more impressive.
    Fortress of Mycenae - could be renamed the Lion Gate, emblem of early greeks
    - Ability bonus to units built here, Shock is probably a good one to show the Greeks infantry power.
    Baalbek - a temple first to Baal, then greeked to Helios and then romaned to Jupiter, oracle consulted before going on wars.
    - Cities with state religion have less war weariness.
    Petra Complex - rich religious site on major trade routes
    - 50% Gold/free merchants and several merchant slots
    Temple of Seti - built to commerorate the victory at Kadesh and celebrates Seti's tactical awesomeness
    - speeds Great General occurence, units built here get free sentry promotion.
    Temple of Ramesses
    - Boosts all Artists in a way similar to Ankor Wat does for Priests (+1 sci, +1 culture)
    Obelisk of Axum huge markers for underground burial complexes
    - 100% culture ability (the national gallery now as a world wonder)
    Naqsh-e Rustam Persian temple site from the Achaemenid period.
    - High Culture, extra stability on city conquest
    Catacombs_of_Kom_el_Shoqafa - ancient burial site in Alexandria, possible to rename to the Hall of Caracalla
    - reduces war weariness
    Ishtar Gate
    - High Culture, gives a cultural bonus to all walls, health bonus to its city.
     
  16. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    I like the first three suggestions in your list. Others seem okay, for most part.
     
  17. Arkaeyn

    Arkaeyn Chieftain

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    Big pile of suggestions! I guess we're gonna need some ground rules:

    First of all, the target number. There are 18 wonders from the time period we're looking at in RFC available from the techs (and the Apostolic Palace is pretty iffy, so I'm thinking more 17). The time period is roughly double the number of turns, which would imply double the number of wonders. On the other hand, the map is smaller, so there'll be fewer civs and fewer cities. I'm thinking 25-28 wonders. That means we're looking for roughly 10 new wonders, and replacements for 6.

    Wonders which can act as easy replacements for the six out-of-geography wonders should get priority.

    Wonders which were built by civs actually in the mod should get priority.

    Wonders which add to diversity should get priority (ie, not all Roman/Greek/Egyptian).
     
  18. Cethegus

    Cethegus Chieftain

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    Someone suggested The First Code of Laws as a possible wonder in another thread. IMO it could be represented easilt with tying +1:) to all cities bonus to the Code of Laws technology and giving its first researcher 1 free technology, making it this mod's Liberalism.
     
  19. The Q-Meister

    The Q-Meister Chieftain

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    Agreed. Well put.

    Did you see my comments about Hagia Sophia? Like I said don't mind it being in but if we're tight on room it might be something we could take out for something better.
     
  20. BurnEmDown

    BurnEmDown Chieftain

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    Masada - Built by Herod as a getaway fort for when the locals revolted against him, later used in the great Jewish revolt of 66AD by the Jewish revolters.
    Now I think in the function sense of this wonder the revolt of 66AD shouldn't be regarded, even tho that's what this place is most famous for, and I can't think of any bonus that fits (stronger rebels?).
    So if we think of the functions it was built for the bonus could perhaps be extra stability in the city or small region.
     

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