[WORK IN PROGRESS] Civilization 4.5

Clear to me.
- units use supply, this cost is an abstract monetary value.
-distance from resupply, determined by routes, determines cost.

-Trace quickest movement route to a friendly city (as by wheeled/navalunit depending on techlevel).
-roads not neccesary, but helpfull as they reduce movement cost.
-Enemy territory: costs double.
-distance in movementpoints determines the cost of transporting goods to the unit(s).
-Calculation of movementpoints used to reach target, could be made dependent on vehicle technologies. (domestication, wheel, sailing, railroads, combustion, flight, teleportation, etc)
[Route could be calculated using the cheapest mode of transport OR reduce calculated cost by a fixed fraction/tech, independent of type of terrain]
-Overall cost of maintenance could be reduceded by tech/civics such as burocracy, logistics, preservatives, etc.
-Individual special units may be excempt from supply (scouts/guerrillas/commandos/etc).
-A maximum length of supplylines.
(faster techs will increase maximum distance, by reducing the movement used.)


You COULD make it even more complex and involved:

Supply also directly detracted from a cities as production and food.
(not depending on distance but number of military units using supply)

Maybe only taken from cities with a distributionpoint building, points used evenly devided amongst these cities, rounding up fractions.
calculate total supply-need:
recalculate money/prod/food need:
round up fractions:
'Collect' supply from cities with ArmyLogisticsWarehouse.
(dunno how to fairly devide extraction from these cities)
 
I had a idea that could be in civ 5.

What it is is military buildings creat units that you can build automaticly it takes longer than just building the unit but it allows you to have a large military and a lot of buildings io your cities.
 
Arexack, yep thats basically it. Don't know if its worth making it any more complicated though. I'm not sure I understand what you mean Navy Seal.
 
i think he means that building a barracks would reduce the turns to produce a musketman. buildings reducing the time needed for certains units.
 
What i'm trying to say is military building automaticly build units (this would take twice as long though) in addition to units that you norm build. It would randomly pick a unit that is in your tech ability.

P.S I meant civ 4.5 lol.
 
I have a mechanism that gives a free Drafted unit every X turns, its ment for wonders but could probably work for regular buildings as well.
 
Ah, something like "primitive sewers": +1health, generates one barbarian 'rat unit' every 5-10 turns.
 
maybe not that specific idea, but the concept is right.
 
But what would be the point? I do not really want to add features for their own sake if it doesn't change gameplay in anyway.

Besides, it would soon get annoying as your units upkeep cost would spiral upwards.
 
Creating a supply line like the one you mentioned on the previous page, connected with roads and through FOW clearings is an excelent idea. Naturaly, including some sort of supply cost formula that changes with new techs is a good move. However, I strongly discourage the creation of any sort of unit for this purpose. A building perhaps, but I would be wary to create a unit for it.
Other than that, you have done a supurb job at balanceing some questionable parts of civ iv. Morale, units dispearsing, and flanking are also very good inventions; I wouldn't change them one bit!
 
but reserve units cant defend or attack can they? unitl theyre mobilised that is :)

i agree with Fortinbras, make supply line a worker action, not a new unit.have workers build roads, and then every 3-4 squares build a Supply Depot, which does everything the unit would have done.
 
I did not read all 172 post, so sorry if I missed this suggestion. I would like to see Zone of Control for certain units. When a unit is on sentry it should stop movement or even have opportunity fire as a unit moves by. I don't know how many of you played The Perfect General game, but I liked how it was implemented in TPG.
 
Has anyone playtested this yet? Because I tried it, and the defending unit would allways retreat with a strength of 0.0.
 
Are you sure? The loosing unit often runs away, and when a unit flees it goes down to 1 HP (which for wariors and archers is rounded to 0).
 
1 is rounded to 0??? It cant be, I often see units with .2 health or less and its not rounded down.
 
it has 1 HP out of 100, so for warriors that 0.02 health (rounded down). However, for axeman and above its 0.05 health, which is rounded up to 0.1.
 
oh I though you were talking strength, my bad :mischief:
 
Just to say... i had a scout at 0.0 health two or three times, and some things run (such as a barb axeman) and ends up closer to my city. (then i made the great wall). But that is a good thing, as it allows me to double the experience. And just as a note. I love Ironworking Impi's :D.
 
You said something about specialist not being worthwile. I have seen people in multiplayer spamming farms and making serious tech while slaving a huge army. Actually farms can be good for multiplayer, easy to rebuild when pillaged, and can slave an army pretty quick in war. I like to cottage, think it is still better. However GPing with phi trait and getting wonder like Great Library and national epic can make it a deadly tactic.

Now I am going to be biased, because I play civ for multiplayer. Never was amused against playing computer, as it is not smart, easily manipulated, and its alot more fun playing with living people. What I see wrong in Civ mostly is warfare.

Things I would like to see:
-Artillery and planes able to bomb roads. (this is a big one)
-Espionage worked alot better in civ3 Period. (another big one)
-Bring back paratroopers, cruise missles.
-Maps need a tuneup. Would like to see a map like fractal, but one that didnt end in islands. A big random pangea/continent type thing. I liked the pangea in civ3 alot more, it was more random. Civ4 its just a circle. Bring back the randomness of maps that was in civ3. We have enough pre-built maps like inland, anyone can build those. But what Civ4 or Civ5 needs is a really good random map generator, some maps are quite boring in their non irreqularity. Best things I like about civ is getting scouts out, knowing your land, having sentry units out. Knowing the land deafets the purpose, making the game all that much dull. This really comes from a mp point of view, where warfare is best played in the field where anything can happen if your not prepared.
-Units having bonus against our units is a nice edition I geuss. Though it takes out the part in Civ where you can't see whats in your enemies city without espionage. But I think we should incorporate def and atk values from civ3. Like a sword for instance will get 25 percent while defending, while a spear will get plus 25 percent when defending. Adds more complexity to the game imo, while not making it not a one-demensional strategy.
-Airfields, outposts, colonies.
-I don't know who made Modern Warfare, but please rebalance the units. Nukes, Modern Armor, Stealth Bombers, Mech Infantry, gunships, and battleships need to be way more expensive. Being Rubber into the mix, modern units should need alot of resources. Making one turn battleships and modern armors is dumb; with tons of overflow may I add. Buying 8 nukes a turn with 10 cities is dumb. These units need to be way more expensive. With this we would get better balance with advanced units. The Super Modern armor would need more Resource and be more expensive... While marines or tow(reinvite) would be less expnensive, weaker, but cost less or just a bit less. For those who love spamming nukes, bring back the nuclear submarine. Can get same price nukes as currently in game but limited range. However ICBM should be astronomical price, and so should the nuclear sub. ICBM spam can make the game go very dull, very quick. This is mainly for Modern and beyond.
-Culture Bomb and culture in general too big. Culture bomb should give only 60 percent level. 20 percent level 5 culture is fine. 40 Percent level though should be 100. 60 Percent culture should be 1000. and 80 percent 5000 culture. From then on doesnt really matter. But getting a 60 percent culture city so fast takes a way alot from gameplay, should only be allowed so quickly to get 60 percent through culture bomb. Culture Bomb would only give you 60 percent also only which I think is fair.
-Duplicate leaders is dumb imo, I say get rid of all the duplicate leaders. Makes the game boring if I may say. Is there fun in dealing with the same two civs, with same UU?
-Would like to see regicide back under a few conditions though. Bombers can shoot him, cruise missles, and paradroppers. This would be scenario used primarlily for future so having these advanced units makes it easier to catch the king. He cannot be seen inside a city with recon. However he can be seen if you steal enemy plans. Its a very fun thing that was played in civ3 future and even from ancient start. If you lose your king, your dead. Two move king that can't use roads or railroads sounds fair. Espionage would of course also have to revert back to civ3, maybe partly in some fashion so you can look into cities earlier etc. too see the hidden king. Nerverthless it would be a very nice add.
-Another balance issue I find, why warrior has 2 strength.. it ruins everything.
Scout should not be able to defend. Warrior should have one strength, archer, chariot, and cat should be 2 strength, spear and axe should be 3 strength, Horse archer should be 4 strength and swordsman should be 5 strength. The rest of course should be lowered in accordance. This simplification of numbers makes battle less "luck orientated" and has no unneccessary complexities.
-Cats are slightly overpowered in anc start, and are used as a stack of death. Cats should be more limited to collateral damage rather than attacking units one for one and take cities.
-Would like too see the 2 move Gallic Swordsman. The Persian Immortal in civ3 was such an awesome unit as well.
-(this debateable, these are only opinions)Food Resources should all be lowered one food point and should not give extra food when worked. Too easy too grow in this game imo, then slave, then regrow as fast as you slaved. Floodplains thought with its health problems are wayy to nice, make some sporatic stariving. Grasslands takes too much of a backseat too floodplains, they too good.
-This is mainly for mp. In future why are settlers costing less? Its way too easy to expand with these cheap settlers. Make settlers cost the same as they do in anc, same goes for workers.
-Allow galleys too cross rivers, but have a good chance of sinking. I saw a great game once in mp. It was surely thought this person was going to win with his points, but little did he know someone crossed a stack of galleys across the ocean! It was one city elimination and it was very exciting. Kinda dumb you can't go into ocean, but you can in real life hehe.
-Why can't you enter your enemies land without declaring war. Common bring the fun back to civ where you could mess around with your neigbours or have a very good relation. Don't restrict unrealistic things hehe.
-Also unit graphics imo look better in civ3, my opinion.

Mainly I think civ4 warfare is what needs the most tune-up. Civ4 economy is pretty good, of course more can be added to make it more complex and more strategic. But Civ4 warfare and espionage is what is lacking, so thats where I concentrated.
 
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