Workers of the world, unite! [RFC RAND]

[onedreamer]

So far:

- Founded Caricyn on the spot Onedreamer had marked (how do you remove the sign: Next city?)

You press F11 and the first icon on the left (IIRC) on the minimap, or anyways, one of those icons.

Yeah, SM and US apply IF you have the state religion there. So send a Confucian missionary there ASAP if you capture Amsterdam! (and whip some culture buildings there too).

No, the religion in the city is irrilevant. The State Religion is relevant.

Why give cities to Germany? We do not have enough cities for the stability bonus to apply.

Because we don't need Aachen and Prague.

I vote for UHV. But only if we eliminate Germany as a threat. (I'm going to be like Cato from now on)

Germany is not a threat militarly. NOTHING is a threat for Russia (defensively) in RFC, com'on. The General Winter will stop any invading army.
Germany is not a threat technologically as it is backwards.
Germany is not a threat toward any victory condition.

Threats are: China and France.

Why gifting cities to Arabia ? Much worse than gifting them to Germany. Why not defending Aachen ? How did we lose the war with France in 2v1 ? It was important to defeat France at that moment.

Can someone PLEASE tell me what the heck is our strategy and what is our goal ? It seems we do things just randomly and without any real thought. Attacking Germany just because it is our neighbor and befriending France because it's farther away... might work for Sun Tzu, but he didn't play RAND and he didn't have to beat time and numerous other civs towards a victory condition.

 

[Jusos2108]

I agree that we do have to decide what is our strategy and act on it. I thought I was suppose to raise the army so that anybody can't threaten us in anyway, but instead we invaded Germany. To be clear I don't mind invading Germany, but perhaps we should then just agree to aim for domination victory instead of the UHV. That will more fun anyways!

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Aachen and Prague were both indefensible. If you have played from my save, the 2 war elephants and maceman would have killed 3 of our units if you didn't venture to weaken them first with cannons. Doubly promoted musketeers have no reliable counter (unless you're ready to sacrifice cannons).
I could have diverted the army from Amsterdam into France, but since everybody was so keen on Amsterdam I went there first.
France is always easy pickings once we have a safe buffer AND have Germany to help us with them. I don't know why you don't understand that if Germany were to get rifles AND they're not our vassal, they will declare on us and Archangelsk is too close to their borders for the UP to work effectively.
Gifting Prague to Germany would have just made them stronger. I gave it to Arabia precisely to collapse them.

Go for France by all means NOW, since that we have Germany as a vassal.
And we can still win UHV or domination.

 

[Jusos2108]

To be honest I don't really care about Aachen and Prag thing, though gifting Prague to Arabia was the right move to make.

Since Danger Bird isn't around yet, I suggest that onedreamer plays next. I think AP was sort of saying the same thing.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

How did we lose the war with France in 2v1

We didn't lose, we got a money settlement from them.
And if you notice, Germany and France had been at war for so long that neither of them were doing anything offensively, and pretty soon after we made peace, they made peace. So we couldn't have counted on the Germans to help us much.
Supply lines are way too long for an effective campaign in France (it would have taken 6 turns to get a pikeman from Moscow to Amsterdam).

 

[Danger Bird]

Yes, you can skip me.

Sorry to keep you wondering. I haven't been able to log in till now, and I wouldn't be able to play until the weekend, when I get back from my trip. So I will just give up my position for this round.

 

[BurnEmDown]

I think our militaristic situation is fine, our only threat is the triple alliance and France (which is only threatening if it would turn into a quadruple alliance). We should now focus on technology (read: espionage), which should improve our military situation too (once we get machine guns we're pretty much un-attackable).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

France has no borders with us except Amsterdam so if we just fortify it they won't dare attacking. I'm more concerned about Turkey.
China never attacks without provocation and we've been their religious brothers for so long. It usually goes for spaceships.
Vikings can surprise us (so Odessa should be fortified), and even giving it up in a world conference is OK).
So I'm OK if we just defend from now on, station troops at chokepoints (Buryngrad, Amsterdam and Odessa). Unless onedreamer really wants to kill France.
When Germany is stable, gift them techs and ask them to research stuff for us (e.g. military science). Don't give them rifles unless somebody declares war on us or them (because if they collapse we will have to deal with indy rifles).

 

[BurnEmDown]

Amsterdam was won by them in the congress, we were in the middle of the current war against Germany so I didn't refuse handing them the city.
pros:
-Our main stack can threaten Germany in the west which means a much quicker victory.
-No risk of losing the city and thus the UHV.
-Less instability (though that's minor since we are stable).

cons:
-Losing Amsterdam obviously.

I think the pros outweigh the cons here, without even adding the war with France to the equation.

 

[Jusos2108]

I agree that Turkey is our only threat for now on.

@AP: BurnEmDown gave Amsterdam to France in a congress (something that I never do, but his choice), so no worries on the western front.

 

[Jusos2108]

Amsterdam was won by them in the congress, we were in the middle of the current war against Germany so I didn't refuse handing them the city.
pros:
-Our main stack can threaten Germany in the west which means a much quicker victory.
-No risk of losing the city and thus the UHV.
-Less instability (though that's minor since we are stable).

cons:
-Losing Amsterdam obviously.

I think the pros outweigh the cons here, without even adding the war with France to the equation.

I disagree, because of three reasons:

1. France could never take Amsterdam from us
2. All the trouble that we went through to get it and keep it, we can't just give it away for nothing
3. I never give cities away in congress, never (okey I admit, that's just my problem)

 

[BurnEmDown]

Edit:
Woops, didn't notice I already posted it.

Edit2: Might as well use this post to answer Jusos' comments

1. Maybe, but it could be a threat and I didn't want to risk it.
2. I guess that might be true.
3. Well France seemed very threatening to me especially at the moment, war with them was too much of a risk for me (tried to play as securely as possible).

 

[AnotherPacifist]

It's fine, no, GREAT, that we gave away Amsterdam (I don't know why we went for it in the first place since it's one more city and costs a lot of maintenance and tough to defend). I would, however, bring the German war quickly to a close so we can station more troops near the Turkish border.

 

[onedreamer]

Ok I have internet at home again now so I can discuss a little more.
Let's forget of the past and start thinking of future. Before the next turn we should really decide the ultimate goal, otherwise playing our turns is just equivalent to press ENTER 10 times.
Let's all vote on it on these candidates:

1- UHV (we must be first to Apollo Program and within 1960 IIRC)
2- Domination (this would have required more planning IMHO, but it is still achievable)
3- Space Race (unlikely)
4- Diplomatic (very unlikely)
5- Religious (extremely unlikely)
6- time/score (the losers' option )

I vote UHV and domination, any of the two works for me although I think we might collapse if we try domination seriously.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

we must be first to Apollo Program and within 1960

We don't need to be first and it's before 1950. It's really easy (just build research and gold from now on).

 

[BurnEmDown]

UHV it is, the worker's republic will get the Apollo program, or die trying!

 

[Jusos2108]

My vote is for Domination, simply because going for the UHV will be extremely boring (like AP said research and wealth). blaah..

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Actually we're on the wrong path to domination...we started out with way too many cities so our tech will never outpace the other civs...and we don't even have communism or fascism.
UHV it is, but not before going for communism/state property to boost our science.
So next tech should be SM.

 

[nody]

My vote is for Domination, simply because going for the UHV will be extremely boring (like AP said research and wealth). blaah..

For Domination I recommend going for a 2 UHV-Golden Age, the Triumphal Arch will also boost military production in Moskva.

 

[Jusos2108]

The vote is tied.

For UHV: AnotherPacifist, BurnEmDown (and onedreamer)

For Domination: Nody, Jusos2108 (and onedreamer)

Danger Bird has not voted, so it is up to him.