Workers of the world, unite! [RFC RAND]

[AnotherPacifist]

Well, don't change civics again. (as we plan a large empire, we shouldn't have done bureaucracy). Concentrate on buildings now in our capital to maximize the civic while other cities with religion build units since we're in Theocracy.
The German border is precariously defended...I wouldn't be surprised if Otto pays us a military visit soon. Which is too bad because we should really be trying to claim Novgorod back like in real life before the Mongols learn any more techs.
And way too many cities at this time, our science is rather suffering.

 

[Jusos2108]

I agree, science will be a problem. To put it simply, we need cottages. Is it still possible to get UoS, that would really help too. Since you are up next, I expect some of these things to be fixed before I am up.

 

[nody]

Those warriors and archers were for sacrificing to the plague. So I am afraid that's wasted money.

What plague? If plague spreads, just move all the garrisson units out of plague-free cities and later move them back.

The techs would have been half-price if you had waited 5 turns.

The chance of getting caught would increase with every turn.

Why didn't you go one more tile SE? (you could have had a gold and 2 more wines, and the cow wheat would be taken by Novorossijsk.)

I wanted to leave room for one more city 4 tiles south.
Also, if both cities have a BFC, give Cows to Novorossijsk and Wheat to Astrakhan. That would be a fair divide.

, we should change back OR and vassalage. EDIT also burecracy doesn't suit a big empire like Russia.

Moskva is now production powerhouse, which is necessery for a war against Mongolia. (just 1 turn per unit, even knights!)
Didn't you notice I also changed to Theocracy?
You still have the extra experience points as long as the city has Confucianism.

Enjoyed reading it though.

Thanks. I had some experience in Stories & Tales.

 

[Jusos2108]

The chance of getting caught would increase with every turn.

No offense, but the risk of getting caught is not worth the wasted espionage points. We can always send in a new spy. Sacrifising one (or even more) spy for a tech like gunpowder is alwys worth it.

Moskva is now production powerhouse, which is necessery for a war against Mongolia. (just 1 turn per unit, even knights!)
Didn't you notice I also changed to Theocracy?
You still have the extra experience points as long as the city has Confucianism.

Anarchy hurts our stability as does bureucracy. Otherwise it is fine. Switching to theocracy was actually the worst part, since our other cities need libraries, forges and markets. OR would have helped with that.

 

[nody]

Otherwise it is fine. Switching to theocracy was actually the worst part, since our other cities need libraries, forges and markets. OR would have helped with that.

We still have slavery to whip them.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

0. Made some trades: Germany wine to our deer, Khmer rice to our wheat, Turkish Ivory and Gold (yay!) to our horse, and sold excess sheep to China for 7g/turn. Science is up to 50%. Devote all espionage to Germany to see what they're up to. Switch Moskow to walls/castle/grocer to maximize its potential. Kill indy scout blocking St Petersburg's horse.
1. 1435 Dutch contact made again, switch all espionage to them. Why are workers building unnecessary roads? (the iron is already connected due to rivers) I vote for ourselves for AP election.
2. 1440 Ming Tai Zu wins by 198 votes (vs our 72).

That's as far as I can go because of CTD! Maybe somebody can try to load it up and play 1 turn.

 

[nody]

Germany wine to our deer,

Why? Astrakhan already has wine in it's BFC.

Khmer rice to our wheat

You better send a worker to the rice by Nodygrad.

Why are workers building unnecessary roads?

In the case of a settler needs to be send farther east... I always do that to the swamps in real Siberia with Russia, because the Mongols usually block me with Balkhash.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

The fact that you might have it in the future (iffy at best since the lands intrinsic Germanness might overwhelm our culture) doesn't mean you have it right now!
And it's always good to make friends and influence people. ("we appreciate the years you've supplied us with resources")

 

[Jusos2108]

That's as far as I can go because of CTD! Maybe somebody can try to load it up and play 1 turn.

It worked fine for me. CTD might have something to do with the new RAND patch you're testing.

 

[onedreamer]

Well... my only remark is that I spent my reign to increase from 50% science to 70% science and we're back at 50%. All the rest including espionage points are nuisances IMHO. Expansion is good but when done in steps. To win a space race you need technologies first of all. Founding and conquering all those cities before improving the others wasn't the right move, now we need to focus on commerce in the developed cities which means we can't build the army.

 

[Danger Bird]

What plague? If plague spreads, just move all the garrisson units out of plague-free cities and later move them back.

That's a valid strategy. Except our cities are far apart, so units may die on the way to the already-plague-stricken city were they are gathering. Also, I always find it rather ridiculous that I am moving my units into plague-stricken cities , even though that often is the best thing to do in the game.

 

[Jusos2108]

Well... my only remark is that I spent my reign to increase from 50% science to 70% science and we're back at 50%. All the rest including espionage points are nuisances IMHO. Expansion is good but when done in steps. To win a space race you need technologies first of all. Founding and conquering all those cities before improving the others wasn't the right move, now we need to focus on commerce in the developed cities which means we can't build the army.

I am just pointing out that we make around 100 beakers per turn and that we lost 800 espionage points. Increasing science spending by 10% means that those 800 points are made up for in just 80 turns. Hardly a nuisance.

Although, I agree that economy should be our main focuse now, just like we discussed with AP couple posts ago. I am also sceptical about the space race victory.

 

[Danger Bird]

Although, I agree that economy should be our main focuse now, just like we discussed with AP couple posts ago. I am also sceptical about the space race victory.

Yes, we certainly don't want any more cities now. Unless they are VERY juicy. And Novgorod of course. But maybe we should wait on that, too.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

Well I'll be sure to move the RAND beta folder out tonight.
And I agree, 800 wasted espionage is almost one and a half tech (after 50% discount).
If I were to found a city I would have done it north of Moskow, where there's decent land for cottages. Not tundra.
Trebuchets and macemen were moving towards Novgorod when I picked it up, it might be worth a try but then a good chunk of future builds will have to be military (when most cities don't even have infrastructure!). We should do it just for the principle though...right?

 

[BurnEmDown]

AP, I think roads on the Iron is OK, since it's easier to defend from razing and stuff if you can move there in 1 turn from the city (although there are marshes in between, so we should make roads for military units).

 

[Jusos2108]

It hurts me too see Novgorod in the hands of the Mongols, maybe we should only take it and raze Ulanbaatar. That would keep the Mongols in a short leash and wouldn't really hurt the economy much more at this point.

BTW, check out my new story Land of the Rus!!

 

[nody]

I am also sceptical about the space race victory.

I'm sure nobody in the real 15th century was planning to launch a spaceship someday.
They still thought the universe revolved around the Earth.

It hurts me too see Novgorod in the hands of the Mongols, maybe we should only take it and raze Ulanbaatar. That would keep the Mongols in a short leash and wouldn't really hurt the economy much more at this point.

I guess if we do just that it will be enough to have them beg for peace.

 

[onedreamer]

I am just pointing out that we make around 100 beakers per turn and that we lost 800 espionage points. Increasing science spending by 10% means that those 800 points are made up for in just 80 turns. Hardly a nuisance.

Although, I agree that economy should be our main focuse now, just like we discussed with AP couple posts ago. I am also sceptical about the space race victory.

Well, there are some key differences. Namely, that a spy can fail and that a healthy economy ensures faster techs for the coming decades, while 800 espionage point at best ensure one tech, and moreover it is a tech you can't trade away. 20% difference (not 10%) mean easily 2 turns more for each tech, which means one more tech in 50 turns or so. And with one more tradable tech you can obtain several new techs. Oh, and the 50% is not net. You don't pay half the cost just because of the 5 turns and the cost increases with turns.

I would not consider to take Novgorod back at any near point now. First because we really don't need more cities at the moment and second because the war would slow even more our economical growth and would dangerously expose our back to Germany. I say that the current Czar Anthrov Pacifiski II and the next czar should both focus on economy and military (defensive in the west, offensive in the east) consolidation. After that, and after we have cannons, we can take back Novgorod and maybe something else.

 

[AnotherPacifist]

3. 1445: Nothing happening other than moving troops in place. Frankfurt's culture expands, blocking off some trees and our main route to our Greek conquests (if Germany were to close borders), so I send a newly built Longbow there.
4. 1450: Sell monotheism to Japan for 90 g (it's 200 beakers, and most civs have it already). Set science to 100% temporarily.
5. 1455: Meet the Portuguese. Trade their clam for our silk. Netherlands makes peace with Vikings.
6. 1460: Astrakhan, Nodygrad, Korinthos and Arkhangelsk's cultures expand! (we now have the copper and the silk in the latter's BFC). Mongolia is now annoyed at us so Moscow churns out unit after unit...
7. 1465: Well sure enough, Genghis Khan demands tribute and we refuse, war ensues. Divine Right stolen from the Dutch, who're collapsing. I switch espionage to the Germans (since we're busy with war on the east we'll have to to at least know what's going on in the west)

8: 1470: our stack approaches Novgorod.
9: 1475: War elephants going towards Novgorod.
10: 1480: Novgorod is recaptured, much to the rejoicing of the Rus. Just little bit more and we'll have gunpowder.

To do:
1. Raze Ulaan Baator
2. More units towards the west. A German horse archer is scouting us.

 

[BurnEmDown]

If we raze Ulaan-Baatar and Genghis still won't agree for peace or won't give enough techs, Samarqand looks like a nice target for razing as well, except that it's on a hill.