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working on yet another rhye's modmod

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall Modmods' started by srpt, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    It seems like there is a lot of interest here for these kind of mods so I thought I would share the one I have been working on. The working title right now is "Rhye's and Fall of the Classical World" and the setting is the old world from the death of Alexander to the death of Charlemagne. The starting civs will be the Romans, Carthaginians, Mauryan Indians and Han Chinese and the last to spawn will be the Tang Chinese, the Arabs and the Franks.

    Why these dates? Starting at the death of Alexander solves two problems: having to include the long chain of mesopotamian ruling peoples leading up to the persians, while not much was happeneing elsewhere (other than maybe the harappans, who present their own quandry) and not having to script the conquest and collapse of persia and the subsequent spread of hellenistic civilization across southwest asia. Ending with Arabs and Franks in the west is partly convenient, being just before an avalanche of new nations in the succeeding centuries, and partly historical. The historical reason is in accordance with the "Pirenne Thesis" of Henri Pirenne, postulating that the medieval world did not begin and that "Europe" as an idea or entity did not exist until the Arab conquest of the eastern mediterranean finally terminated the economic and cultural exchange patterns of the classical world.

    Aside from the setting, there are two thematic elements I want to emphasize: luxury trade and a slightly different take on religions. Briefly, some luxuries such as silk and gold will be worth more than one happy face and there will be no happiness from units except in the otherwise backward and disadvantgeous civic "tyranny". Markets will also pay more with more lururies and there will be a few unplayable but non-minor (ie contactable) one-city civs sitting on piles of resources, such as Sheba/Yemen with incense. As for religions, there are 11 of them and the UN will be replaced by "the great synthesis" which will work the same as normal but represent the fusion of the world's multiple searches for metaphysical truth into a single theory that is so compelling that, as long as enough other people agree, you win the game by founding the "one true faith". This project will take an impossibly long time to build but work will be sped up by each religion in the city (or maybe the empire), so that it becomes practical at about 7 or 8 religions. State religion will be less of a factor and the DLL will be changed so that the presence of other religions does not impede the spread of new ones nearly as much.

    A note about historical accuracy: in this period there is not a lot of solid information on some groups. With that in mind, I will be speculative and try to make a fun game. As an example I couldn't find any source for a Bactrian Greek UU, so I made one up. I'm sure I will have to do the same for the Kushans. Also with certain trading civs like Srivajaya and the Ghana empire in Mali, I will take the earliest acceptable start date and allow them to contacted before they historically were to include them.

    So what have I done? I have a mod/scenario set in roughly 300bc with a new tech tree, slightly different unit scheme, unique units and some unique buildings, new civics that are partly satifactory, 9 religions on the map with 3 to be founded, some extra resources, and some basic horse archer spawns on the steppes. I'm using unit art from Varietas Delectat and stock leaderheads so far. The only DLL change so far is to make roads immune to pillage. It would simply be too hard and no fun to try to maintain the silk road otherwise.

    So what am I doing next?

    Map: balance resources and city sites
    Art: leaderheads and flags
    XML: markets as mentioned, civics are in place but need work
    Python: more barbs, stability, riseandfall, UHVs
    DLL: more civs, dynamic starts, religion changes

    and of course settler maps, war maps and city name maps

    I'm open to comments, advice, help and participation from anyone. This is my first more or less from scratch project and I don't have any background in programming. I've worked with all aspects of modding (I think) in making changes to other mods and although I've gotten stuck many times in the end I never failed to make the game do what I wanted. I intend to work on this solidly til its done. I'm going on vacation for two weeks in july but other than I will be working on it most nights and weekends.

    I'm attaching what I have so far, minus the art from Varietas Delectat to get under the size limit, so you need to grab those files (just the paked art, not the xml) or the units will be red blobs.

    Working on this is the most fun I've had in a while, so I'd to thank some people for that:
    Rhye: I was always frustrated by the random map, everyone-starts at once, the whole world is owned by the early middle ages aspects of vanilla civ, as far as I'm concerned you are the 2nd founder of civ.
    embryodead: SoI is my guide for completeness, focus, detail and all around design perfection.
    The_J, Asaf, Leoreth, Baldyr, civ-addicted, Black_Whole, Corrosol, Luko and others I'm forgetting: helpful, creative people

    Also, the flash of inspiration for this actually came from the 200bc scenario for GEM and my map is an altered cut-down of theirs, so many thanks to them for making it.

    And here is some additional information about my plans:

    Spoiler :
    Playable civs:

    (I have not thought of unique powers, not sure if they are necessary. I have played some RFC and SoI games where I didn't even know what my unique power was. I'm not opposed to them, however.)

    Roman Empire
    leader: Trajan or whoever
    starting date: 300 BC
    UU: Legion
    UB: Forum
    UHV 1: control 8 medditeranean cities in 1 AD
    UHV 2: control Trajan's empire in 300 AD
    UHV 3: make Constantinople the world's largest and most cultured city in 800 AD

    Carthaginain Empire
    leader: Hannibal
    starting date: 300 BC
    UU: Numidian Cavalry
    UB: Cothon
    UHV 1: destroy Rome
    UHV 2: access 2 dyes and 2 spices by 100 BC
    UHV 3: access silk, tin, spices, dyes, amber, copper and iron in 300AD

    Ptolemaic Egyptian Empire
    leader: Cleopatra
    starting date: 300 BC
    UU: Libyan Skirmisher (Skirmisher w bonus vs mounted, no resource, counters cataphracts)
    UB: Catchment Basin (Levee with food bonus, levees available earlier)
    UHV 1: make Alexandria the world's largest and most cultured city in 200 AD
    UHV 2: found two religions (ie christianity and islam)
    UHV 3: access x gold in 800 AD (either conquer axum or trade with ghana)

    Mauryan Empire
    leader: Asoka
    starting date: 300 BC
    UU: Elephant Archer
    UB: Edict of Asoka (courthouse w happiness)
    UHV 1: control the world's largest empire in 100 BC
    UHV 2: have an Edict of Asoka in every city in 100 BC
    UHV 3: convert two civs to buddhism

    Armenian Empire
    leader: Tigranes I
    starting date: 300BC
    UU: Azatavrear (cataphract w double hill movement)
    UB: Jhamatun Monastery (cave-monastery w culture bonus)
    UHV 1: control six cities by 100 AD
    UHV 2: found christianity
    UHV 3: never lose a city before 600 AD

    Greco-Bactrian Empire
    leader: Demetrius I
    starting date: 250 BC
    UU: Sodgian Peltast (skirmisher w mounted archer bonus)
    UB: Agora (market w culture)
    UHV 1: build seven embassies and seventeen temples by 1 AD
    UHV 2: control bactria and punjab in 1 AD
    UHV 3: do not lose a city before 29 AD

    Parthian Empire
    leader: Mithridates I
    starting date: 247 BC
    UU: Grivpanvar
    UB: Cavalry Barracks
    UHV 1: control punjab, greater iran and mesopotamia in 1 AD
    UHV 2: have 2 vassals in 200 AD
    UHV 3: destroy or vassalize the Romans

    Han Empire
    leader: Wu
    starting date: 220 BC
    UU: Cho-Ko-Nu
    UB: Bronzeworks (forge, +1 culture w copper)
    UHV 1: be the 1st to discover paper and compass
    UHV 2: control tarim and viet nam in 200 AD
    UHV 3: do not lose a city before 500 AD

    Kushan Empire
    leader: Kanishka
    starting date: 30 AD
    UU: Yuezhi Raider (horse archer w city raider?)
    UB: Mint (forge w + 1 trade route and bonus culture from gold)
    UHV 1: control tarim and punjab in 100 AD
    UHV 2: have the world's largest empire in 300 AD
    UHV 3: spread buddhism to 30%

    Sassanid Empire
    leader: Shapur II
    starting date: 224 AD
    UU: Zayhedan (cataphract w withdrawal bonus)
    UB: Bazaar (market w small bonus/luxury adding up to large bonus w great variety of luxuries)
    UHV 1: control greater iran and mesopotamia by 350 AD
    UHV 2: control egypt, anatolia and n india by 600 AD
    UHV 3: found islam

    Gupta Empire
    leader: Chandragupta I
    starting date: 320 AD
    UU: (longbowman w bonus vs mounted ie elephant counter)
    UB: (library w extra culture to reflect golden age of arts and scholarship)
    UHV 1: produce x great people before 800 AD
    UHV 2: have the world's largest population in 800 AD
    UHV 3: experience three golden ages and no anarchy between 350 AD and 800 AD

    Chalukyan Empire
    leader: Pulakesi II
    starting date 543 AD
    UU: Kshatriya
    UB:
    UHV 1: build 2 hindu cathedrals
    UHV 2: destroy the pallavas by 600 AD
    UHV 3: control all of india in 800 AD

    Frankish Empire
    leader: Charlemagne
    starting date: 570 AD
    UU: (swordsman w double movement and bonus vs mounted)
    UB: Manor House (cheap courthouse)
    UHV 1: conquer charlemagne's empire
    UHV 2: build a cathedral
    UHV 3: don't allow islam in europe by 800 AD

    Srivijayan Empire
    leader: Indravarman
    starting date: 600 AD
    UU: a fast boat
    UB: a harbor with xp for boats
    UHV 1: have trade relations with 8 civs
    UHV 2: aquire 8 luxuries
    UHV 3: amass 8,000 gold

    Tang Empire
    leader: Taizong
    starting date: 618 AD
    UU: Firelancer (crossbow replacement)
    UB: Pagoda (monument w stability)
    UHV 1: control tarim and vietnam in 700 AD
    UHV 2: be 1st to discover gunpowder and printing press
    UHV 3: population and army each double nearest rival in 900 AD

    Arab Empire
    leader: Abu Bakr
    starting date: 630 AD
    UU: Camel Archer
    UB: Madrassah
    UHV 1: conquer umayyad empire
    UHV 2: spread islam to 40%
    UHV 3: be 1st to finish tech tree

    Moorish Empire
    leader: Abd-ar-Rahman
    starting date: 696 AD
    UU: Berber Cavalry (cataphract replacement, no metal resourse, blitz)
    UB: Military Hospital (barracks w medic)
    UHV 1: make cordoba the world's largest city
    UHV 2: make cordoba the world's most scientific city
    UHV 3: convert 1 civ to islam

    Non-playable but fully diplomatic civs:

    Meroe
    starting date: 300 BC

    Tocharians
    starting date: 300 BC

    Seleucids
    starting date: 300 BC

    Sheba
    starting date: 300 BC

    Vietnam
    starting date: 257 BC

    Satavahanas
    starting date: 230 BC

    Jin
    starting date: 226 BC

    Axum
    starting date: 100 AD

    Yamato
    starting date: 250 AD

    Pallavas
    starting date: 571 AD

    Khmer
    starting date: 600 AD

    Ghana
    starting date: 700 AD

    some of these, such as the Jin Dynasty and Meroe, would probably be made playable later

    All this adds up to 29 civ slots with no respawns


    Some other details...

    Religions:

    already founded - Hinduism, Buddhism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Hellenism
    to be founded - Christianity, Islam
    all equal status, no gameplay differences

    Civics:

    Government

    Despotism
    Monarchy - +1 happiness in 6 (or less) largest cities, significant stability penalty for large civs
    Republic - double cottage growth and production from towns, +50% great people, extreme stability penalty for large civs
    Empire - moderate stabilty penaly for large civs
    Theocracy - moderate stabilty penaly for large civs, +1 happy with state religion, significant stability penalty for non-state religions

    Religion

    Paganism
    Scholasticism - +1 or 2 beaker/priest
    Evangelism - can build missionaries
    Militancy - +1 xp in state religion cities
    Monumentalism - +25% production of state religion buildings and wonders

    Labor

    Tribalism
    Slavery - can sacrifice population
    Serfdom - +1 production from farm
    Caste System - +1 food from farm, +1 xp, +1free specialist, -50% great person
    Citizenship - +1 happiness, +50% great people, stability penalty for large civs

    Legal

    Barbarism
    Religious Law - +50% great people with state religion, -1 happiness per non-state religion
    Tyranny - +1 happiness per miltary unit, -1 happiness, -1 trade route
    Vassalge - +1 xp for military land units, +5 free units
    Bureaucracy - +50% gold in capital, can hire unlimited magistrates

    Economic

    Decentralization
    Agrarianism - +1 food from farm
    Trade - +2 trade route, can hire unlimited merchants
    Patronage - +50% culture in capital, can hire unlimited artisans
    Military Economy - +50% military unit production

    Units:

    no radical changes, just a bit more detail. add skirmishers or peltasts (javelinmen), horsemen, lancers (cataphracts). move horse archers and trebuchets each to their own specific tech, horse archers have no counter like

    in Sword of Islam, knights require stirrup, later iron units require charcoal for steel to make up for the loss of other strategic resources.

    Tech Tree:

    most existing techs from the classical to renaissance era with a bunch of new techs added or repositioned such as:
    Horse Archery
    Stirrup
    Blast Furnace
    Marksmanship
    Crop Rotation
    Fortification
    Seige Warfare
    Astronomy
    Cartography
    Navigation
    Prosthyletism
    Persecution
    Selective Breeding
    Advanced Irrigation
    Professional Armies

    Building changes:

    All gold and happiness bonuses from buildings will be per resource and hit musicals etc will be replaced by manufacured items for trade form more advanced civs to less, to further emphisize the importance of trade

    relations.

    Maybe this will work: make harbours like short range airports. If the graphics don't look ridiculous it might make the mediterranean more of a highway for the AI rather than the hinderance it is.

    Specialists:

    Artisan - 1 culture, 1 gold, 1 production
    Magistrate - 2 gold
    Merchant - 3 gold, 1 food
    Priest - 2 culture, 1 science
    Scholar - 4 science

    Scholars available only from buildings, 1 from a library, 1 from an observatory, 1 from an academy, others available from civics


    edit:sorry there was a dumb cut and paste error in the xml, its gone.
    2nd edit:removed some unnecessary python from another mod
     

    Attached Files:

  2. Baron03

    Baron03 Baron

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    Sounds promising, but is the map a regular RFC map or eurasia and northern Africa?
     
  3. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    the map goes from the northern tip of Scotland to the southern edge of Java and from Spain to Japan. I know ther will be some areas where not mush happens but I don't mind that. I don't like seeing the edge of the map on land during games and especially having civs that butt up against the edge.
     
  4. Opera

    Opera Chieftain

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    I'd try it but I get a python error on start up, something about CvEventInterface not being loaded. According to the logs, it's an error in CvPath.py and I believe it may be due to me using the Complete Edition of Civ4.
     
  5. Valex Charme

    Valex Charme Chieftain

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    Whenever I load the mod, it looks like it's still the regular BTS screen except with an option to Unload Mod.
     
  6. corovanrobber

    corovanrobber Chieftain

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    what about gauls and, uhm, maybe early sarmatian or dacian state (two latter just to take some free place :lol:). and why not to give opportunity to play as seleucids sinse they start as very powerful ones?
     
  7. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    @Valex Charme: Because I haven't figured out the public maps/private maps to make the scenario appear in the list after you launch the mod I've gotten into the habit of just launching from the worldbuilder save. Its in Classical World mod/Public maps.

    @Opera: got rid of CvPath.py and some other stuff. maybe it works now?
     
  8. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    @corovanrobber: yes there are any number of cool civs that could be added. I don't know if you know the series Terry Jones Barbarians (Terry Jones of Monty Python) but he had a good episode detailing a bit about the wealth and sophisticated culture of pre-roman Dacia. Another area that doesn't get much attention is the Greek city-states in southern Russia around that time. As for the Gauls, I thought of keeping them as barbs unless Rome invades, at which point they would unite under Vercingetorix and spawn as a civ. I wouldn't want them to dominate europe as a mega-state, which I think they would inevitably do if left alone, but I would like the Romans to get a fight out them. Playing them would be fun too of course, but I would probably give them stiff stability penalties.

    @all: thanks for the interest
     
  9. Opera

    Opera Chieftain

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    It works fine now :)

    There are a lot of civs at the start, but I guess this is because you haven't set up the "rise" part yet, right?

    In any case, I'd advise just keeping up with the work. You may want to look around for leaderheads, there are many that could fit most of your civs.

    One thing though: which mod are you basing yours on? Mostly the hidden question is: will you use provinces à la Sword of Islam or not? I don't remember seeing them.
     
  10. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    I'm not sure provinces would be the best way to do it but I'll go with whatever seems best when I get there. I'm afraid the province names would just end up being geographic descriptions like "Indus Valley" or "Mesopotamia", which wouldn't add any color really.

    Yes there are a lot of civs on that map. Not all the civs which are on that map will start at the same time. I just filled up the 17 civ slots with reasonably appropriate civs to get started. Also some of those civs, such as Saba, Kashgar/Tocharia and some southern Indian civs are there mostly to be traded with. For example if Kashgar is indy or barb it will actually block the silk road rather than facilitate it as they did. They're still showing up as playable so I can play as them and balance their city sites, but they won't be playable in the mod.

    And about the Seleucids, they probably will be playable and there might be a macedonian civ too and perhaps even Pergamon, but one of the few "deterministic" things I want is for Rome to conquer Greece and then move their capital there if they lose X number of western cities and go unstable (ie no Byzantine civ spawn) so I want Greece to be a relatively easy target, as it was, and completely within the roman stability core. I don't honestly think Greece ever exercised an independent foreign policy ever again after the Roman conquest, right down today. They tried in 1919 but it kind of blew up in their face. This is the reason I always thought trying to protect Greece from a Byzantine spawn in other mods was a bit unwarranted. They did end up almost assimilating the romans in a way, linguistically and culturally, but there never was a "native" rebellion as far as I know.
     
  11. Valex Charme

    Valex Charme Chieftain

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    I like it so far. And I think it's funny how the Greeks are barbarians. Attacking other civs with my red blobs is also entertaining :D
     
  12. srpt

    srpt Deist

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  13. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    here are my ideas for corporations:

    Spoiler :
    they would not be founded or have headquarters but spread along trade routes to cities that have the resources they want and allow new buildings like in Sword of Islam, with a strong preference for capitals and large cities. perhaps a max global instance so the player will need to compete with the AI to attract them.

    Cloth Merchants - Silk, Dyes, Sheep, Cotton - allows Cloth Market (+1 happy per resource, +5% gold per resource, +1 trade route)
    Spice Merchants - Pepper, Cinnamon, Salt - allows Spice Market (+1 happy per resource, +10% gold per resource, +1 trade route)
    Grain Merchants - Wheat, Rice, Barley - allows Grain Market (+2 food per resource, +1 trade route)
    Master Artisans - Gems, Gold, Silver, Ivory - allows Artisan's Quarter (+5% prod per resource, +2 culture, +1 trade route)
    Fish Merchants - Fish, Clams, Crabs - allows Fish Market (+2 food per resource, +1 trade route)
    Master Tradesmen - Stone, Marble, Iron, Copper, Timber - allows Tradesman's Quarter (+10% prod per resource, +1 trade route)
    can't think of number 7 olives? wine? pigs? horses?

    ideally all the above would only be buildable in cities that had at least 1 resource in their radius.

    the vanilla Market would be replaced by the Fairground (or maybe a different name), required for the Cloth Market or Spice Market. the Grain Market and Fish Market would require a Harbor (bulk grain was only moved by sea back then) and the Artisan's and Tradesmen's Quarters would require a Forge

    Tyranny (happiness from units civic): corporations have no effect

    few or no trade routes without these buildings, except for palaces which would get 1 or 2 trade routes to start things off
     
  14. corovanrobber

    corovanrobber Chieftain

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    Hmm they should be a challenge of surviving in uncountable waves of german, roman, huns etc invasions, so the mighty united state must concentrate on defending from enemies rather than dominating Europe by military and science. I see logically military developed state with main objective - defending the borders and I have no idea why they must unite so late.
    More, more barbarian pressure. :lol:
     
  15. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    don't worry there will be lots more barbs. where do you think the celts should spawn? Bibracte?
     
  16. corovanrobber

    corovanrobber Chieftain

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    I first thought about Alesia since it's a bit northern that Bibracte and it could allow to have some barbarian or independent cities (Massilia etc) between core of Gallia and gallic Italy. But I still don't know the size of your map, just some ideas for now, however yeah it's difficult to choose correct and historical capital for many gaul tribes.
     
  17. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    having thought about it I agree: the celts should be in. can anyone tell me how many civs I can add before performance suffers too much? bearing in mind that as many as half of them would be quite small ie 3 cities or less.

    to give you an idea of the map, its larger scale than rhyes but considerably smaller than RFCE or SoI. Italy is about 19 tiles on rhye's map, including Sicily, on this one its 33. also it seems like this map does not exaggerate europe as much as Rhye's does, which I think is appropriate. the Gauls would have room for 5 or 6 cities east of the Rhine and north of the Pyrennes.

    a first draft of a province list, some are tiny and some are huge, as you would imagine, and China needs more provinces and more research.

    Spoiler :
    Hibernia
    Brittania
    Gaul
    Germania
    Italia
    Iberia
    Illyria
    Dacia
    Greece
    Asia Minor
    Syria
    Mesopotamia
    Arabia
    Egypt
    Kush
    Cyrenaica
    Africa
    Caucausus
    Armenia
    Iran
    Bactria
    Sodgiana
    Indus Valley
    Ganges Valley
    Deccan
    Tamil Nadu
    Sri Lanka
    Bengal
    Tarim Basin
    Gansu
    Huang Ho Valley
    Chang Jiang Valley (lower Yangtze)
    Sichuan
    Vietnam
    Khmer
    Srivajaya
    Tibet
    Manchuria
    Mongol Steppe
    Turkish Steppe
    Scythian Steppe
    Pontic Steppe
    Siberia
    Sahara
    East Sahel
    West Sahel
    Congo
    Punt
     
  18. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    hey I finally got my dll to compile with right civs, techs and settler maps. I haven't run the map with it yet but I'm happy to be be one huge step closer.

    thanks go to Fuyu, God-Emperor, The_J and especially Asaf.

    I hope to have a basic "rise and fall" version soon.
     
  19. Gruekiller

    Gruekiller Back From The Beyond

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  20. srpt

    srpt Deist

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    I am still making progress. I have the dll running the map and python basically, with some bugs to work out. still no unique powers or historical victories coded. no city maps either. lots still to do but getting there.
     

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