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World Cup 2010 Final!

Discussion in 'Sports Talk' started by Nomnomnom, Jul 6, 2010.

  1. Darkness

    Darkness Shadow creature

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    The Dutch weren't robbed by the referee. Spain was better and earned the win. But the fact remains that the referee was horribly bad. He let the game get completely out of hand. I am convinced that if Webb had sent of De Jong in the first half things would have calmed down. Off course that would have meant losing for the Dutch at the end of regulation, but it would have been a much better game. And after the De Jong foul Webb proceeded to let things slide way too long, until the game was way out of hand and everyone (including the Spanish) felt like they could get away with anything...


    And Cruijff... Quite honestly, most of the Dutch have tuned him out long ago. He keeps on nagging about his opinion that the Dutch have to play "total football". He is off course entitled to his own opinion, but he's not important. He's just a former player and coach. He's been repeatedly offered the position of coach of the national team, but he's always refused, preferring to critisize from the sidelines. Until he starts "doing" instead of just "talking" we're just not going to listen anymore.
     
  2. Lambert Simnel

    Lambert Simnel One across

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    Fair enough :)

    Well, I think van Bommel should have gone in the first half, not the second. And Iniesta wouldn't have been reacting to another cruncher from van Bommel if the latter hadn't actually been there to commit the foul. But I do agree the ref was too lenient. I rather suspect he was told to avoid sending anyone off as far as possible, and certainly in the first half. If he had sent off de Jong and van Bommel early on, we might have been able to concentrate on discussing the football.
     
  3. El Koeno

    El Koeno Emperor

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    Don't worry, the Dutch newspapers (at least the ones I read) are calling for a return to attractive football. And lets face it, the building blocks are still there. It's just that we can't compete against the top teams in that way, and the smaller teams withdraw too far for it to succeed - look at the difficulties Spain faced in the early stages of the tournament. So what are we to do? Lose because that what the international press wants? By that token England shouldn't even compete next time. ;) So we go more Inter style, but we've got a lot to learn in the self-control department, I'll admit. And let's hope we get some more sparkles of brilliance next time, from players like Van der Vaart and Van Persie, both of whom were disappointing this WC.
     
  4. Frank Drebin

    Frank Drebin Police Squad!

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    Moderator Action: Trolling edited out.
     
  5. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    I think the main point here is that not everything is OK when trying to win the World Cup. Sure, winning is awesome and the players have a huge incentive to try to claim the title using all means available - but that doesn't make it OK. Surely we can all agree that the desire to win the WC would not justify hiring the Mafia to break the legs of the opponents the day before the Final. We should also all be able to agree that applying Kung Fu kicks on your opponents, or fouling every single succesful attack, is not acceptable either.

    If you really need van Bommel and de Jong to win, then you don't deserve to win. I think it would be much preferable to lose in the round of 16 playing an entertaining and fair game then reaching the Final just to live in infamy.

    And I do not believe at all that Holland needs thuggery to be succesful. Holland has been a good team since the 70's, and you just don't lose your majesty (as Uruguay proved). With a smart tactical scheme, the quality is there to make a good campaign in 2014 and beyond. Of course, this is no guarantee of winning, but as I said losing earlier and honourably is prefarable to the sad display of Sunday.
     
  6. Inter4

    Inter4 Forza Inter!

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    Dutch people can only blame one person for this defeat: Cruyff :p
     
  7. J-man

    J-man Deity

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    The Dutch team has been welcomed in Holland. As you can see in the first minute of this video:

    Link to video.

    (only the first minute of this vid is interesting. Imagine how they would have been welcome if they did win the finale...
     
  8. El Koeno

    El Koeno Emperor

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    Ah well, let's hope together that we'll see better play next time...
     
  9. Rik Meleet

    Rik Meleet Top predator Retired Moderator

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    There is some truth in this.

    * Except that we can blame more people than just Cruyff; a large part of the blame is on the Dutch side itself for not winning and Robben for failing to score.
    * Except there are more Dutch coaches to blame for turning FC Barcelona (who provided the core of the deserved victorious Spanish team) into a great squad; Cruyff, Van Gaal, Rijkaard.
    * Except that also a big part of the blame is on the Spanish side who were clearly better.

    But, to be honest, I do not really see using "blame" is the correct way to go. The Spanish side was a better side than the Dutch side, and I can't see why a side should be blamed for being better. Blame only has its place when a stronger side messes up and because of that loses to a weaker side.
     
  10. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours!
    Hey, do you want Iniesta to win everything? A sextuple in 2009, a WC and the Rivaldo? :p

    Srsly nao, his kick at van bommel would have meant both were sent off there and then with a half-decent referee.
     
  11. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Van Bommel didn't do anything to deserve being sent off.

    Except when done by Brazil against the Netherlands, right?

    No country would prefer to lose in the round of 16 than win the world cup.

    Playing a hard, physical game almost won them a world cup. And when you have good physical players like Van Bommel and de Jong, you take advantage of them.
     
  12. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours!
    He did, look at all the fouls he committed. And, when Iniesta retaliated against van Bommel, the latter had just done the same to him.
    Nobody's defending Brazil's performance. Has anyone defended Felipe Melo hitting Robben 3-4 times in less than the same amount of seconds?
    Mark van Bommel and Nigel de Jong weren't 'physical'. If you do to someone what de Jong did to Xavi Alonso you get prosecuted for assault at the very least. It's a straight red and two matches in any league.
     
  13. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Not a single one was worthy of being sent off for.

    de Jong should've been sent off for his kick, but apart from that they were just doing good physical play.
     
  14. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    Of course not. I already said I consider Felipe Melo as bad as van Bommel and the Karate Kid de Jong. But in all fairness you can't say that Brazil`s strategy was fouling every attack by the opponent.

    Fortunately though Holland did not win. And I think in the future people from Germany (among others) will have better memories of the 2010 WC than the Dutch, even though they lost earlier.

    So yeah, if you play horrible, thuggish football and still you lose, than maybe you should consider something else.

    It only "almost won the Cup" (which is very very different from actually winning) because the refs sucked. In a fair world Holland would have gotten so many red cards, and not only on the Final, that their thuggish style would lead only to defeat.

    And I don't think you know what "physical game" is when applied to football. This isn't rugby, you know.
     
  15. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    The best style of football *is* physical, and it is played in the English premier league.

    you are right about holland deserving at least 1 more red in the final, though.
     
  16. luiz

    luiz Trendy Revolutionary

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    Personally I am not a fan of "physical football", but my point was rather that being physical is different than being a thug. Van Bommel and de Jong behaved like thugs.

    And this is not my opinion, this is the opinion of pretty much the entire Sports Press of the world, all the main sport commentators and even the greatest Dutch player ever. If a random australian guy on the Internet wants to argue otherwise that's his right, but it's not very convincing.
     
  17. ThERat

    ThERat Deity

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    I have been following the EPL for a while and hardly seen such malicious play. It's physical but not to the extent of what we have witnessed.
    Did you see Van Persie how he immediately fouled some Spanish seconds into the game. It was clear from there, that the Dutch were instructed to destroy the Spanish play.

    Van Bommel and De Jong aren't good players, they are dirty and everyone knows that. There is some consolation though, cos they didn't win. I also like how Drogba (no angel himself) dealt with him.

    nice one
     
  18. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours!
    Individually, maybe, but the accumulation of half a dozen yellow cards during the course of the game would have done trick.
    You evidently must have confused the rulebooks and thought this was rugby.
    I share luiz's opinions on your statements.
    Being unsportsmanly and failing? I can think of no worse combination...
    They'd have lost van bommel against brazil and against Uruguay they'd have lost another 2-3 players.
    There's a difference between the game not being a ballet and turning it into a masacre like the '62 Cup.
    The Dutch really played anti-football, there's no disguising that.
    :rotfl: The Spanish should have done that and put him in his place.
     
  19. azzaman333

    azzaman333 meh

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    Sorry, I forgot, soccer players are too weak to actually deal with the slightest contact. :rolleyes:
     
  20. Esckey

    Esckey Deity

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    .........so Spain never commited any fouls?
     

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