World Ideology and Religion

[wearecity]

Firstly hi, my first post.

Done a search, but can't seem to find a thread that answers my question.

I am on turn 400, playing as Greece and the only victory it looks like I can achieve, is to become world leader. I currently am host of the world congress, I also have all the CS as allies.

My ultimate question is how bad an affect would it have, if I push my Ideology and Religion to the rest of the world, baring in mind no other civ has the same as mine.

I'm thinking of doing this to secure more votes when it becomes the United Nations.

My concern is that by pushing through the above, will lead to every other civ going to war with me and thus, I could end up losing some city state and not have enough votes to win the game as World Leader.

My actual game status as it stands below....

It's only my 3rd or 4th full game, so I'm still playing on Prince level.

My map a large Pangaea has 5 AI's (Austria, Dutch, Siam, Korea and Byzantium) and 8 CS.

I have the 3rd biggest army, in some parts outdated and don't have a huge amount of gold.

 

[kaspergm]

What difficulty level are you playing? Depending on who your neighbors are and whether they are more advanced than you in military tech, they might seize on the opportunity, but generally when I play on Emperor it's my experience that forcing either of those votes will not make them DoW you outright unless they have a strong dislike for you already. You should expect chain denouncements, however.

Edit > Sorry I see now it says prince level. I wouldn't worry too much then, but you should obviously prepare for a defensive war if necessary. Even if your army is not superior, you can generally hold a defense fairly easily as long as you have a decent number of troops.

 

[wearecity]

Hi, thanks for your reply.

In the end, I decided to go with pushing through both and won on turn 464. I used what gold I had to build up some up some military and switched to gold focus and sold some luxuries to keep in the black while waiting the turns for them to be passed.

During that time, everyone but Austria, decided to go to war with Siam (who had the highest score and military). By the time they declared peace, I had the largest army and with some decent science gains via the culture tree, my tech ended up just slightly ahead of everybody by 5 or so turns. That meant I pushed on for atomic and nuclear weapons first...

Everyone started to become afraid of me and certainly didn't want to risk war. War took its toll on gold for them as well and so none of them could pay to beat my CS allied status without me, getting it back within a turn or 2.

I was slightly disappointed, because it became obvious, that I was going to win around turn 420 and had to just play out until I could get 30 votes, which was enough to be world leader.

Certainly going to try King level next, for more of a challenge as the AI weren't that aggressive and felt as though I didn't really need a big army all game. I even, still had some crossbowman and a hoplite at the end. Everyone seemed to be friendly, until I pushed religion on them. Although surprisingly Siam, who I thought would be very friendly, were at best neutral for most of the game.

 

[kaspergm]

Upgrading to King will put a bit more stress on your military for sure, although since BnW was released AI is much less agressive than it was in G&K (in G&K you could pretty much set your clock to when the AI would DoW you first time).

It seems to me that you have chosen a very low number of City States compared to regular civs, defaults ratios are 2:1 and that generally means you can win DV without too much delay.

 

[wearecity]

Yes, I'm pretty much still new to the game, having only done about 200 hours and never having played a CIV game before CIV V G&K, so still finding my way around and each game teaches me something different.

The map I had should have had 8 CIV's and I believe 16 CS, but I reduced it down, to give me room to expand and also to go for a peaceful victory, as I was hoping not to have any real neighbours, till late in the game.

I have so far, always gone for a peaceful victory, as I'm not that comfortable with the military aspects of the game. Next game, I'm going to look at, at least having a go at conquering a civ or two.

 

[Sarin]

Diplo Victory in CiV kinda seems to be the easiest one for me. Get Forbidden Palace, pay off CS to get their votes right before council, use those to push yourself as host, then use that to get your religion and ideology to get even more votes, use spies as diplomats to allow deals, and get another civ or two to vote for you for load of cash and stuff if possible if CS votes aren't enough as you propose yourself as leader.

 

[wearecity]

I agree, apart from the score, the diplo way seems to be the easiest.

Pretty much what you did, I did. Although I used spies to rig elections in wavering CS, once they had stolen all the tech from the most advanced AI civ.

I knew I could achieve victory once I became host and had over half the CS as alies.

Looking back, my largest concern and the only way I could have been defeated, was when some civs were at war and some CS not allied to me were nearly taken over/destroyed during the war. I'm talking one more attack and it was game over for them and probably me.

Might play game setup exactly the same on a higher level because I'm sure I wouldn't get the diplo victory, at all by playing it the same way.

 

[docbud]

I've had a few games where I pushed through my ideology with no problem. But then...

When I tried to push through my religion the next time, the 2nd highest leader made a proposal to rescind my ideology.

Very frustrating....

 

[reddishrecue]

I've noticed that most of the ais that I have gone against preferred order or autocracy and usually have gotten autocracy or order as the world ideologies which make these ideologies more influential. When I used to go to multiplayer and it used to work more often, I noticed that most humans preferred freedom. I guess most ideologies are good to a point where they get passed as world ideology in the world congress. You could say something similar with religion since religions can also be passed as world religions. Getting your majority religion in your cities or the religion that you made passed as world religion could be helpful.

 

[Sessy]

world religion is mainly useful if you're playing a tall CV game, otherwise I wouldn't think it's all that important. Greece is just impossibly good at the diplo game, unless you had a warmonger who took over a bunch of CS.

out of curiosity, which ideology did you choose? I think freedom into treaty org is the way to go for greece, and then send your trade routes out to CS, hit globalization and put your diplomats in the AI capitals. I doubt you'll even need the forbidden palace.

 

[wearecity]

I was the first to choose and I did indeed choose Freedom and sure enough all the 5 other civs choose order or autocracy.

My game was more tall than wide and only once was one of my cities converted to another religion which I turn back to my religion almost immediately.

Overall, I think I was pretty lucky with my game, decent start position. Amongst the AI civ which I set up as random, I had no warmongers, no one who spread religion for fun etc. My position and spread, stopped, Austria my only border neighbour from expanding too much as well. The main opposition Siam (the score leaders by some way) were too far from me to worry about them and I was always only a turn or so behind them tech wise at the most. Middle game, I became tech leader, after stealing from them twice.

 

[phillipwyllie]

Proposing your Religion will make all civs that have founded a religion not like you anymore. It is possible to propose your Ideology without any diplomatic repercussions. You do this by beelining Electricity and completing the Oxford University on the turn you research Electricity allowing you to bulb Radio. Next turn you will have to pick your ideology, but since you have researched Radio you can now propose your ideology. If you can time it to that you research Radio before or on the first vote you will have gotten your ideology in very early. Since most civs will be in the Renaissance era they wont care, some might even vote yay. A turn 180 or earlier ideology is probably the target.

How does one achieve a t180 ideology? Simply put that is all about growth and getting your cities out early. An early NC, as well as an early Education. The means sacrificing most/all of the ancient/classical wonders, but you will have your pick of the rest, in fact on Prince every wonder after that should be yours. If you send all available trade routes to your capital and choose Tradition you will very quickly get a pop 30 capital, assuming you are locking tiles. Allying or befriending Maritime CS are the priority as they give bonuses to food.

 

[cairnsy44]

I've had a few games where I pushed through my ideology with no problem. But then...

When I tried to push through my religion the next time, the 2nd highest leader made a proposal to rescind my ideology.

Very frustrating....

Why wouldn't you just use your voting supremacy to defeat that proposal? If you railroaded it through in the first place, you should probably expect them to try to rescind it and not just sit there and take it.

 

[docbud]

^^I did. And when I had pushed through my ideology I was the only one with an ideology. And when I tried to push through my religion, I was still the only one with an ideology. So I didn't expect them to rescind it.

Anyway--I did vote to keep the ideology, but then the religion was vetoed.

I mainly said it was frustrating because it seemed like a waste of a proposal.

If the 2nd highest leader would have had less votes, I probably would have pushed religion and my ideology might have been safe. Again--no one had an ideology yet, except myself.

I didn't want to chance it.

EDIT: Note that I am not complaining about it. Just saying it was frustrating. And I think it was a good move by the AI. I probably would have done the same thing. But it doesn't mean it's any less frustrating