OK thanks for the info the upgrading makes sense. I can see pros and cons for the Soviets joining the Allies-the points will be more equal but a war if the Germans are vanquished could be fun. I can keep providing updates if you'd like I will definitely be playing deep into the game as several different civs. Also, the Axis have made very limited progress against the Soviets and in North Africa yet they already have 317,000 VP and are gaining roughly 5,000 per turn. At that rate, they'll win in 54 turns, 82 overall plus or minus a few.