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World War?!

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Strategy & Tips' started by commodified, May 31, 2002.

  1. commodified

    commodified Calculator

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    For a game that supposedly tries to adhere to reality as much as possible, down to the tiniest little detail, I fail to understand why Civ III is sometimes so irrational.

    Every single other civ in the world just declared every type of war on me, and for no ostensible reason! The first to attack were the Persians, who are basically marauding murderers who killed the Zulu just for greed. Then every signed MPPs, alliances, and trade embargos against me, with PERSIA!! This would like if every country in the world joined the Nazis in WWII.

    Christ!

    Anyway, can anybody explain why this happened and what I can do about it?

    I'm the Japanese, and I'm squished on one continent with the Chinese, Romans, Egyptians, and Indians. People are attacking from all sides.

    P.S. Why isn't there a difficulty level between Chieftain and Warlord? Warlord is infinitely more difficult.
     
  2. Hawkster

    Hawkster sorcerer

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    There usually is a reason why the AI goes to war.....just hard to see sometimes.Top reasons include:-

    1.land grab - the Ai likes to try grab as much land as it can
    2.resources - if you have resources the AI wants then duck
    3.if you're millitary is weaker than the AI's (in numbers only) then it will attack - it always picks on the 'weakest' civ

    And of course if a civ attackes you and has MPP's then everyone joins in.
    The step between chieftan and warlord can seem steep - chieftan is more like a tutorial mode. On warlord you need to have a plan of action - peace/war - type of victory you want etc etc otherwise you will struggle.

    Keeping civs from going to war with you is tricky - lots of trading helps - but not guaranteed. There are also lots of useful tips / tricks in the forums - I've found them a big help - check out the war academy.


    Good luck
     
  3. kring

    kring Asst Cook & Bottle Washer

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    It is good to view the Foreign Advisor screen to check on MPP's and other agreements between the civs. If you find a civ getting MPP's with all the other civs but you; watch out. Try to get MPP's with all the other civs. One thing to remember is that the goal is not to attack first; let them attack you first since this will decide how the MPP partners will join up to.
     
  4. Mikal

    Mikal Chieftain

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    Yeah I did that once, you see the more powerful people he's making deals with and then you make the same deals, in the meantime if you want to make even doubly sure no others will side with him sign a mpp with him as well. Sometimes the AI will still break it.
     
  5. Catt

    Catt Chieftain

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    Also, when Persia attacks, it's time for you to get that diplomacy in gear. If you blithely set about preparing your defenses and counter-attack, those neutral countries won't stay neutral for long. Ally yourself against Persia with one or more neutral civs, preferably one on your continent so that it can actually bring some units to the dance, even if you have to pay a steep price -- if you don't, Persia will do so and turn those neutrals into combatants (on the wrong side, of course :))

    Keep working at it. It's a wonderful feeling when you get that first win at a higher difficulty level.
     
  6. Graeme the mad

    Graeme the mad Certified Maniac

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    Persia almost certainly offered some of them at least a lot of money to join up - what did you offer them?? Diddly Squat.

    I find that world wars tend to be rather balanced but it can go with everyone declaring war on one civ if they have not for instance signed MPP's (yes thats right use them whatever those people who are fantastically good at the game say)
     
  7. kring

    kring Asst Cook & Bottle Washer

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    Also, they won't always honor the MPP with actual military assistance. I got the Japanese to MPP against India; there were neighbors; I also had cities in the area, not once during the 20 turns did I see a Japanese unit attack the Indians, nor did I see the Indians attack Japan. And the Advisor stated Japan declares war on India; as well as showing up on the F4 screen as them being at war. And India and I were involved in a real war.
     
  8. Catt

    Catt Chieftain

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    Too true!

    It does work the other way, also (don't want to encourage a rant :aargh3: about AI cheating!). Many times I have had an ally of an AI civ declare war on me pursuant to their MPP, but never see hide nor hair of the "ally."
     
  9. sas330

    sas330 Chieftain

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    i'd sign PT w/ everyone, then pull a sneak-attack. if u are in the Industrial Age, destroy their trade network and railroads! railroad pillaging will slow down troop movements and no trade routes will make the citizens of enemy countries unhappy.:goodjob:
     
  10. BCLG100

    BCLG100 Music Master

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    an alternitive when they all declare war on you is 2 take them all on that way you will get practice and it wont happen much again
    plus usually for somereason the ai attacks with loads of movement 1 units e.g.marines,musketmen and spearmen so if you have fast moving units e.g. horses tanks then you might be able to take them all out
     
  11. kring

    kring Asst Cook & Bottle Washer

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    I don't consider it cheating if the AI doesn't help out. I understand sometimes you can't or won't.

    In this instance, I asked for the MPP after I was already in a war with India, so Japan knew the consequences of making the MPP.
     
  12. Catt

    Catt Chieftain

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    kring, I agree completely.

    But you know as well as I that some on these boards would point to Japan's actions in your example as "just one more example of blatant AI cheating against the human -- it's really just AI versus human, no matter what the 'diplomacy' screen says." I just wanted to make clear that it is entirely reasonable (for AI or for human) to agree to an MPP or alliance (especially when the requestor is currently at war) with the knowledge that one can't (or even won't, by choice) help much in the battle. One's reputation is of course affected by the assitance one gives (at least in the human player's mind :); not so sure about the AI code).

    I especially like agreeing to a military alliance with an AI (who built the Great Lighthouse) against another AI on a different continent (one reachable only with Astronomy or the Great Lighthouse) - "Yes, sir, happy to help in your honorable war against the treacherous XXX. I will send my full army against them, just as soon as I discover astronomy (about 5 techs ahead of where I am) :lol: :lol:

    EDIT: replaced "Navigation" with "Astronomy" where appropriate.
     
  13. explodin dog

    explodin dog .....

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    get a really really big pile of ballistic missiles and head for the f****** bunker

    really, they seem to not be very much men about it, pickin on the weak people.
    oh well, i do say to myself everyday that weak people are usually nothing.. mentally or physically, weak, that is.
    ok, one word, NUCLER WAR! wait, thats two.
     
  14. Charlie888

    Charlie888 Chieftain

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    If your way behind in your military expect the computer to attack you-its smart. The turn he attacks you should be looking for allies. I already think the ai is timid enough against a human player (i play diety and win 100%) so you must awful in your military. Dont make mutual protection pacts with other people-itll get you drawn into war, if they attack you, get a military alliance with some other civ. 4 defensive units per city is more than enough to keep u safe. Get a regular military and peace will go your way.
     
  15. Zouave

    Zouave Crusader

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    :rolleyes: Are you serious?? We have been complaining for seven months about what a step BACKWARDS the game is historically compared even to Civ 2. Fewer techs and units; ridiculously low resource appearance rates; highly simplistic and inaccurate unit values; etc. The posts have been numerous on this subject, and they started in December with compaints about Immortals being depicted as having swords (they never did), or airlifting war elephants - an idiocy Firaxis still hasn't fixed.

    It has puzzled us all for over half a year. :( It may have something to do with rushed programming getting the game to market before it was ready, or an inadequate AI that has to blatantly cheat.
     
  16. sabo

    sabo My Ancestors were Vikings

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    For a game that supposedly tries to adhere to reality as much as possible, down to the tiniest little detail, I fail to understand why Civ III is sometimes so irrational

    Commified,
    What game are you playing?? I'm building nukes in 1854!! :)
     
  17. Carver

    Carver Chieftain

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    What version are you using? Prior to 1.21 chieftain was rediculously easy and warlord was basically the same as regent. Now they seem stepped much better. Chieftain is only for the genuine newbie (or mod testing) and warlord is good prep for regent. :king:
     
  18. RedBaron635

    RedBaron635 Chieftain

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    Hears a small trick if ur at war with every one and have no chance.. simple .. bild atomic wepons and use them on one enamy.. ask the other civs to surinder and if thay dont bomb ther bigest citys... if thay still dont give up bild more and nuke all city after city tell thay give up.. also billed lots of bombers and let hell lose no citys roads units etc... allso bild tanks and any ofensiv units and [like i allwas say] atack atack atack!!!!! if the atomic trick works good ur enamy will be weak for a long time so bild atacking units fast and then start war with those d*mn persains[or who ever] and crush them.. the civs i recamind to u are germany and rome the panzer is the overall most usefull specal unit in the hole game and in the fist age and in the bigenig of the second age legons are the most usefull unit.. thay can start u off strong and good... i allso want to say chang to monarchy as soon as u can then to communisam..
    :goodjob:
     
  19. Trinity

    Trinity Brains, Beauty & st b*tch

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    Aww don't be so hard on Xerses. Yes he's an aggressive pig, but he's so inconsistent. I've fought wars with him and against him in the same game. I think he knew I got sucked into the first two by his arch enemy Babylon. Then I fought with him against Babylon. Then I fought against him and nearly wiped him out before my WW nearly brought me to my knees. Then I was neck and neck with the Iroquois for a space victory, and Xerses (real PO'd at Elizabeth, Hiawatha and furious with me) buys Synthetic Fibers from me for 300 gpt. I was able to up my science research to 90% and win the game. It was the steel chair shot that rocked the world.
     
  20. The Last Conformist

    The Last Conformist Irresistibly Attractive

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    Inaccurate unit values? Given that the game doesn't try to simulate real combat, how can the values be inaccurate? At the worst, they could make the game unbalanced.

    Immortals having swords ... that's terrible, innit? Too bad that you're not restricted to one unit too, which you historically should. And except that War Elephants ought to be obsolete by the time you're able to airlift stuff, I fail to understand how it's an "idiocy" - it's not like elephants have never been transported by air, and if[7i] they IRL were still used in war, I'm sure there'd been specially constructed elephant-carrying aeroplanes. (And let's not forget that their are helicopters capable to lifting light tanks ... obviously our in-game 'copters should be able to transport war elephants!)
     

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