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Worldspells by Teams and Vassals

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Fafnir13, Apr 20, 2009.

  1. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    It is rather annoying to be halted in conquest when your Amurite vassals stop your primary siege equipment (cultists) from being able to do their job. It would be preferable if some check could be built into world spells so that they do not negatively effect members of your own team. This would probably (I haven't checked if any of them already have checks for teams) include the Illian's, Amurite's, Lanun's, Calabim's, and Sheaim's world spells. Possibly others that I've missed. It makes sense that your teammates do not receive the benefit of a cast spell (not that many of them really give a benefit), but it would certainly help if you are at least not hindering those you should be helping.
     
  2. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    That is a realy good point.
     
  3. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    I don't think so. The worldspell is for a single civ's benefit only. You allied with the Sheiam? Serves yourself right when they nuke the world and you get burned too.

    EDIT: This seems more of an AI problem btw.
     
  4. JonathanStrange

    JonathanStrange PrinceWithA1000Enemies

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    That's a good point too. Yet... a little more discretion by allies/vassals would be cool.
     
  5. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    It's not just an AI problem. It's also a problem for people playing LAN games. While you can do your best to mitigate the damage you do to your friends, many times it will simply mean you can't use them. It's an annoying situation that doesn't need to exist.
    As for the AI, the simplest solution is just to not let the effects hit vassals and allies. The AI already has enough trouble knowing when to cast the spells without adding in a number of additional factors.
     
  6. DioBrando

    DioBrando Warlord

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    Great power, responsibility, etc.
     
  7. WarKirby

    WarKirby Arty person

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    I agree that negative effects shouldn't hit allies and vassals/masters
     
  8. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    Now that sounds like a strategic problem.
     
  9. DioBrando

    DioBrando Warlord

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    But really. When sheaim does their worldbreak ritual, do you expect them to say "oh, well, let's bring hell to all of earth BUT the clan lands. They have been swell to us"

    Or what if the illians said that "oh well, let's bring the whole world to a stasis by bringing a longlasting winter to the whole world, including our territories. Except for that lanun patch over there, let them have summer"

    It's mostly evil civilizations that have mean worldspells that affect everyone, so I don't see why they would make exceptions. Not even in the case of river of blood, since that "ritual" is probably very shady.
     
  10. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    Amen..................
     
  11. Luckmann

    Luckmann Esusian Epicure

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    What do you mean "Rivers of Blood"? I have no idea what you're talking about...:mischief:
    Edit: But yes, I agree. Some World Spells definately shouldn't affect allies. Not because "This doesn't make sense" but because it completely invalidates the usage of them in multiplayer. No-one will use something that screws over your ally, even if it screws over your enemies even more. If for nothing else than to avoid the ****storm that comes from whining allies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2009
  12. Azhral

    Azhral Let's get Tactical!

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    How about a nice easy fix. If the player is teamed with an AI, the AI will not cast their worldspell until the player tells them too, a bit like telling them what to research and where to attack.
     
  13. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    That sounds reasonable.
     
  14. zup

    zup Emperor

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    I am fine with worldspells killing/hurting/whatever indiscriminately. World spells can be disabled if it's really such a huge issue.
     
  15. Keeper_GFA

    Keeper_GFA Prince

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    I'm with zup on this one. Don't take the world out of world spells.
     
  16. PPQ_Purple

    PPQ_Purple Techpriest Engineer

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    Why not make it a selectable option. Call it indiscriminate world spells (description: World spells effect team members as well as the rest of the world). And let us chose what to play.
    I for one have been stuck with my world spell rendered usles one time to many in order to prevent my ally from being masacred or worse turning on me.
     
  17. Grakor456

    Grakor456 Chieftain

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    Making it an option sounds reasonable to me. As it is, I tend to disable world spells entirely more often than not.
     
  18. deadliver

    deadliver Loud Mouth Amateur

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    I agree with this option too.
     
  19. Fafnir13

    Fafnir13 King

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    The game doesn't need another option for this. World spells are somewhat of an oddity already, both in balance and utility. Further confusion doesn't need to be added in. From a gameplay perspective, teams should be working as a team. These powerful, one time use (two with ritual) spells should adding to the experience. Instead they hinder and, in the case of AI's, annoy. It is a subtractive experience.
    From a lore perspective, if you are allied with the Sheaim your are allied with the Sheaim. You are part of their dark plots and in the inner circle. Your armies should be poised to strike right along with theirs as the rest of the world gets a dose of flame and death. Instead your getting toasted right along with everyone else. Yay.
    So, unless there is actual demand for the world spells of your allies to harm you, I would suggest no additional options. Just change the targets in whatever runs the world spells and call it a day. The AI can cast it whenever they want, no additional interface required. Players can cast it based on when they would benefit and not have to worry about inflicting doom on their own friends. It seems like a win win situation.
     
  20. Korias

    Korias King

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    If on a team, then it makes sense for world spells to benefit the team, not the player. However, this should NOT be for Vassal-Master relationships. Only if a permanent Alliance has been made should the world spell harm allies, and on the reverse side, should it also aid, as per the use of Ardor and Revelry, by the Grigori and Balseraphs?
     

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