Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Furyofposeidon, Nov 21, 2011.
I know... this subject is probably a bit overused, but I want to see what you guys think.
I know what most people are going to say, but I reckon it's the Mongol Terror. There's no reason at all to attack city-states, so it's redundant really
+1 for all mounted units can be useful.
Oh yeah... someone voted monument builders down. You can get +20% production for wonders on your second social policy!
Someone - and more than one person - really voted "Father Governs Child" as the worst UA?
Father governs child... I rated that down. The problem is, I hardly ever are nice to City States. Only if I had hellenic league would this be good... but oops I have father governs child. So I rated down!
A surprisingly tough thing to vote on. . . and not because abilities are nearly equal throughout. Rather some are all but useless and others are all but broken with a few thrown in the middle for good measure.
As for my canidates - Barbary Corsairs and Sun Never Sets were the big ones. I went with Barbary Corsairs, mostly cause I think faster ships > ships with cheaper maintanence(now if BC reduced the production costs of ships by that amount I might want, still mostly useless, but better than +2 moves).
Hellenic League and Father Governs Child are both decent enough, but half the time I don't bother with City States. . . at least not on a large enough scale to make significant use of both abilities. Mongol Terror's +1 move to mounted I find rather handy when I bother with mounted units(and I will if I am playing as the Mongols), still relatively weak though since the City State bonus is rather useless the way I play(now if it were against both City States and Barbs that would be another story; still not great, but might actually be useful on raging Barbs).
It's probably trade caravans. How much gold is that going to get you? Almost nothing unless you're ICSing.
Barbary corsairs save you some maintenance and gives you free ships, which is certainly worth more than a tiny bit of gold. The english UA is also really weak, a bit of movement for ships doesn't make a big difference.
As for Greece and Siam. If you don't use CS they're worth nothing ofcourse. But if you're playing as Greece or Siam, investing in CS is totally worth it.
Population Growth. It´s the only ability with a disadvantage in it.
Playing with Greece or Siam and not using CSs is a bit silly. Both UAs are very good, you just need to use them. I actually think Siam's UA is among the very best, far away from being among the worst. City States are already powerful enough as it is.
My vote goes for Trade Caravan. I like playing the Arabs thanks to their UB, but this UA is practically worthless. The amount of gold is just too small compared to other gold-giving UAs like Songhai or Spain.
True, but if you adjust your strategy to it it's very powerfull. So certainly not the worst.
Trade caravans does give double oil, I voted for Sun never sets.
Barbary corsairs- a 50% shot of converting a barbarian naval unit. I have yet to figure out how that can help me in any meaningful way.
But in total it gives you huge advantage. You're in huge plus in even wide empires. Only disadvantage has it hinders rapid expansion in early game, and it's a bad idea even without india.
Its note like I avoid using it. Just that I find leveraging it to be less handy than many of the top tier abilities. Unless you crank up the number of City States of course, but in my ranking I assume 'Standard' game settings. And often with Standard number of city states on a Continents map I tend to only have 1-2 viable city state allies until Caravels. Half the time they are all militaristic or at least Hostile personality. Then late game I find the CS continent/island with 8+ CS's crowded on it and no one else .
I just need to argue that the strength of Trade Caravan is the double Oil, not the extra gold. I can often find a solid use for Oil Based units when I play(they just make those last turns much more bearable in my opinion). Problem being I tend to run out of Oil VERY fast. Having twice as much Oil is rather handy. Still not a top tier ability though.
As for BC's free ships. . . I have really never gotten it to work all that well, nor ever needed more than a few ships(and don't like paying upgrade costs on them, though I imagine converting a Barbarian Frigate/Destroyer/Battleship(do they spawn Battleships?) could be handy). Definitely a situational low tier ability in a similar class as Sun Never Sets.
I normally can't move for oil. So I voted, trade caravans.
Population Growth sucks, why is it -50% unhappy per pop trade for +100% unhappy per city. It would be better if it's -50% and +50% respectively. This will not make the UA imba, but also give India a chance to build a few more cities.
I don't see how that would be an improvement... it's still +50% unhappiness.
Maybe +25% unhappines from number of cities and 75% from citizens would make it a bit more generic. Still, I don't like generic UA's.
Unhappiness per city is generally not much of an issue (even at +100%). The idea behind India is to have a "tall" empire with fewer cities of higher population. It is one of the best UA in the game for OCC or Culture VC games.
If you prefer having a "wide" empire with a lot of cities or games where you win by Domination VC which conquering the world, then India probably isn't for you.
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