Would a Vegetarian have a problem with this:

[greenpeace]

Lets say you could insure that all the meat products you ate came from "happy" free-range animals who died because of symptoms of old age, would there be a problem with eating it?

Personally, I don't see how there possibly could be arguement against since, to the animal, it had a completely "happy" life and then it died a natural death. One could argue that it would be kind of bizarre eating dead humans, but humans can easily care deeply about relatives, whereas animals don't show signs of actually caring what happens to their relatives (at least not common farm animals that I know of, although if you have evidence you could proove me wrong easily).

 

[Kraznaya]

I would because the meat would be tough and yucky.

 

[Gooblah]

Nah; At this point, I'd probably react badly to meat. I see your point, however, I still wouldn't eat meat.

 

[greenpeace]

I would because the meat would be tough and yucky.

Really? You mean meat from old animals is greatly different (I wouldn't know).

But I mean this ethically though.

edit:

Nah; At this point, I'd probably react badly to meat. I see your point, however, I still wouldn't eat meat.

Why not (other than a bad reaction to meat, which also happens to be part of the reason I only eat organic still)?

 

[Stevenpfo]

But I mean this ethically though.

I'm a vegetarian. As is my whole family (wife and kids). I don't think it is ethical. Better for animals by a 1000 times but not ethical.

I'll also be honest. I don't want to debate about the ethics of it. I hate those arguments and the type of people that flock to them.

 

[warpus]

Not all vegetarians are vegetarian because of moral reasons.

Some just don't like the way meat tastes.. others do it for dietary reasons. Some join vegetarian cults.

 

[greenpeace]

I'm a vegetarian. As is my whole family (wife and kids). I don't think it is ethical. Better for animals by a 1000 times but not ethical.

I'll also be honest. I don't want to debate about the ethics of it. I hate those arguments and the type of people that flock to them.

But how is it unethical?

Not all vegetarians are vegetarian because of moral reasons.

Some just don't like the way meat tastes.. others do it for dietary reasons. Some join vegetarian cults.

Well this is aimed for those who do think it is unethical.

 

[BasketCase]

If we left the animals alone, to live out their lives as nature intended, a lot of them would not get a chance to die of old age.

Many would get attacked by predators, and subjected to the torment of being eaten alive.

"Natural" does not lead to "happy". Therefore, I'm going to get back to the pork chops I was in the middle of when I ran across this thread--and no, I'm not going to worry about whether or not these chops came from a happy animal.

 

[Fifty]

There are a couple ethical considerations that may still be at play (notwithstanding the fact that nobody would ever want to eat meat that is dying of old age):

1. If you agree with some central tenants of Kantian moral philosophy, you might worry that you'd be treating the animals as means instead of ends, which is a big no no if (as you presumably do) you think that they are moral agents (or at least worthy of moral consideration)

2. There are other ethical considerations besides the suffering of animals. In particular, resource concerns might make you wary of the resource-costs of sustaining livestock (food, water, land, not to mention all the poo and farts they make which can be bad for the environment).

 

[Gecko1]

Cow is good meat.

Pig is good meat.

Chicken is good meat.

Human is good meat.

 

[BasketCase]

Humans launch nuclear missiles at you when you try to eat them.

 

[.Shane.]

@ the OP... there are about 1000 different reasons for being a vegetarian. So, the scenario you outline would make some reconsider eating meat and have absolutely no affect on others.

 

[Stevenpfo]

Fifty actually brought up some points that I really agree with. As did Warpus.

I don't eat meat for many reasons. Warpus is actually right about some of the groups acting like cults. Every belief or way of life has small groups that act like this. Diets are no exception.

I also like to think I have a grip on reality. I know the animals would all die (most of them) if we just let them go. To me this is along the same lines as, "The world will jsut end some day so why don't we use it how we see fit right now?" or, "I won't live to see the result of my actions so why do I care?"

Are those bad analogies? Probably. Someone will point it out for me. I don't care though. It's how I feel. Because i'll be honest, I don't know much about everything. I know what makes me happy and what makes me sad. I have a set of beliefs that I hold dear. Amongst them is a belief that everyone and everything deserves respect.

Do a lot of my actions disrespect a lot of things on this planet? You bet. I'm working on that. It's hard to balance this unrealistic utopian idea in my head and the reality of the world while raising two kids. However, there are some things I can do now to make a change. By eating organic and by not eating meat I feel like it's a heck of a good start on this path I want to go down and it's a heck of a good start to a life for my kids. Next i'll teach them to the best of my abilities to think for themselves and decide on their own.

I won't get into factory farming or how a majority of animals are raised for consumption because that is not what the OP wanted. The way I see it (to use another bad analogy) is this: if you own a slave but treat him well, dies it make it right? What if he was born into slavery and had no way of fending for himself in the world? What if we freed him and he died of starvation or someone killed him for his meager belongings because he was so innocent?

I cringe every time I type a new sentence because I can already see the replies and the futility of a lot of this. I'm trying because you seem to care though. Meh, i'll type more after I see what kind of responses I get. This is only the ethical side of why I do not eat meat.

 

[Fifty]

I dunno Steve, basing ethical views on respect is hardly some undeveloped fringe view. Kantianism is one of the three main traditions in ethical theorizing, and concepts of respect and dignity and so forth figure prominently into it.

You may not get a lot of support for your position here, because this forum is populated by typical half-baked versions of ethical anti-realism (which is basically the default position towards ethics in our current intellectual culture), but rest assured, your views about respect are...respectable!

 

[Stevenpfo]

Heh, thanks Fifty. I know my beliefs based on respect are hardly a new or a crazy belief system. It is just that it gets treated so when applied to everything. I think convenience plays a big part in it (for most).

You may not get a lot of support for your position here

This I know and that's why I said I cringe when I write certain things. I know how certain people will respond. Then i'll feel the need to respond. You know how it goes. It's the reason I don't post more often. I just go ahead and read what everyone else says and form my own opinion and carry on. Most times. then there's times such as this...

 

[jeps]

I think so, they are vegetarians for a reason.

I DO know some people who would buy this, since they are not Jewish but only eat Kosher meat because the animal must be completely healthy, and it is not kosher if the animal feels any pain either.

 

[Aegis]

Is it ethical when a wild animal eats a human, or other animals?

If they can eat us at any opportunity, then they're fair game for us, imo.

 

[lutzj]

Is it ethical when a wild animal eats a human, or other animals?

If they can eat us at any opportunity, then they're fair game for us, imo.

QFT.

[My two /] Animals raised as livestock live much better lives than wild ones. [My two ]

 

[Narz]

I don't think many would want to eat an animal that died of old age. When I was vegetarian I believed it was morally fine for people to eat animals provided those animals had a decent life. I'd imagine that 95-99% of meat (and dairy) animals do not.

 

[Aegis]

QFT.

[My two /] Animals raised as livestock live much better lives than wild ones. [My two ]

Well, probably not the ones that are never allowed to move.