Would the GOP types push the USA into default ?

[hobbsyoyo]

It won't happen. Boehner said he would the shutdown, and probably his speakership, if it came down to a default.



http://politicalwire.com/archives/2..._republicans_he_wont_let_country_default.html

That's assuming he has more control over the bulk of his caucus than the teahadists do. He probably does, but you can never be sure.

But the dems only need 20ish votes so and presumably he could deliver that much.


Wait, if he can do that, then why the shutdown in the first frakkin place? :crazyeyes:

 

[downtown]

Yeah, like you said, he doesn't really need to control the whole caucus, just 17 votes, which he could deliver right this second. There are already 20 house Republicans who have said they'd vote to end the shutdown straight up yesterday, and he can probably get another 5 more in a day or two.

As for why do the shutdown to begin with, you raise an excellent point. It was a TERRIBLE idea. It still is.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

They've been saying on the news if he delivers those 17 votes, his speakership is in jeopardy.

Two things I have to say about that:

If they are going to depose a speaker over trying to avoid calamity, they are really off the rails.

Does he value his speakership over the welfare of the country? -> I'd say yes or we wouldn't have the shutdown to begin with.

 

[Cutlass]

"We're not going to be disrespected. We have to get something out of this. And I don't know what that even is."
—

Republican Congressman Marlin Stutsman, on the government shutdown

 

[downtown]

They've been saying on the news if he delivers those 17 votes, his speakership is in jeopardy.

Two things I have to say about that:

If they are going to depose a speaker over trying to avoid calamity, they are really off the rails.

Does he value his speakership over the welfare of the country? -> I'd say yes or we wouldn't have the shutdown to begin with.

Yeah, to be honest, I think the big thing saving his speakership right now is that nobody else really wants the gig. It's pretty much impossible to heard the 30 or so crazy Tea Party people with the rest of the congregation. It's not like Issa or Cantor want this gig. It is difficult to imagine too many scenarios where this ends and he keeps his gig though.

And yes, he is absolutely putting his job over the welfare of the country, and probably the 2014 political future of the GOP. This is a great way for Republicans to torpedo their chances at taking back the Senate next year, which is very possible.

 

[DinoDoc]

And yes, he is absolutely putting his job over the welfare of the country, and probably the 2014 political future of the GOP.

History Suggests Shutdown Stakes May Not Be That High
The 1996 Congressional elections also saw the GOP hold a majority in the House and gain seats in the Senate.

 

[MobBoss]

An interesting take, O bama and the Dems would be forcing the GOP nutters to default on the debts of the USA.
One does have to wonder how rational the GOP and it's supporters are.

What part of equally culpable did you not get?

 

[downtown]

What part of equally culpable did you not get?

There is no way in hell that these two parties here are equally culpable.

 

[DinoDoc]

There is no way in hell that these two parties here are equally culpable.

This budget was due by law in March.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

If the Dems own the Senate, along with the Oval Office and wont compromise either; how exactly is this all the GOPs fault?

Our government works on the principle of compromise. When divisiveness gets to the point of non-compromise, then this is the sort of things that happens - and has happened many times before.

If anything, both parties are equally culpable and responsible for this current situation. Obama's 'my way or the highway' attitude simply isn't doing the country any good at all.

Because shutting down the government to get what you couldn't get through the Congress or the Courts is 'compromise'.

Then again, I suppose that Republicans shutting down a bill to keep the criminal and criminally insane from purchasing firearms was *totes* compromise. By that standard, yeah sure, the Dems are equally the bad guys who can't compromise.

History Suggests Shutdown Stakes May Not Be That High
The 1996 Congressional elections also saw the GOP hold a majority in the House and gain seats in the Senate.

The past is not predictive of the future.

 

[FriendlyFire]

What part of equally culpable did you not get?

So when Government shutdowns and Republicans say this ... both sides are 50% responsible.

“We’re very excited,” said Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minn.). “It’s exactly what we wanted, and we got it.”

“This is about the happiest I’ve seen members in a long time because we’ve seen we’re starting to win this dialogue on a national level.”

“It’s wonderful,” said Rep. John Abney Culberson (R-Tex.), clapping his hands to emphasize the point. “We’re 100 percent united!”

 

[JollyRoger]

What part of equally culpable did you not get?

Show your math.

 

[DinoDoc]

The past is not predictive of the future.

Then what are you basing your predictions on? Because while the American people have historically disliked government shutdowns, they've yet to make any party pay a price for them.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Then what are you basing your predictions on? Because while the American people have historically disliked government shutdowns, they've yet to make any party pay a price for them.

I don't have any good idea of what will come of this. I'd like to say the Republicans will hurt over it but I don't know.

 

[Commodore]

I don't have any good idea of what will come of this. I'd like to say the Republicans will hurt over it but I don't know.

I'd like to think that too, but unfortunately it seems like the Teahadist movement is growing in strength despite the fact that much of our current economical trouble can be attributed to them and their insane demands.

 

[Leoreth]

What part of equally culpable did you not get?

Equally culpable is the Fox News version of it's the Republicans' fault.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'd like to think that too, but unfortunately it seems like the Teahadist movement is growing in strength despite the fact that much of our current economical trouble can be attributed to them and their insane demands.

Just the opposite is occurring.

Tea Party Support Dwindles to Near-Record Low

Only Tea Party approves shutdown, poll shows

Supporters of the anti-government Tea Party movement are the only group in America to support shutting down the federal government, according to a CBS News poll released this morning.

The nationwide survey found that 72 percent disapprove forcing a shutdown as a means of halting implementation of the Affordable Care Act. Just 25 percent approved.

Overwhelming majorities of Democrats (86 percent) and independent voters (76 percent) give a thumbs-down to the shutdown. Even Republicans, whose House leaders forced the confrontation, disapprove of the shutdown by a 49-to-48 percent margin.

Even those who don’t like the Affordable Care Act — popularly labeled Obamacare — disapproved of the shutdown by a 59-38 percent margin.

But the Tea Party thinks differently. Fifty-seven percent of its supporters approved of shutting the government as a device to block health care reform. Forty percent disapproved.

The poll found more American blame House Republicans for the impasse than President Obama, although Obama’s numbers vis-a-vis Congress are not as strong as those of President Clinton in 1995, when a Republican-run House under Speaker Newt Gingrich shut down the government.

 

[Antilogic]

Doesn't counter my point at all.

I thought you were making a joke, at least in the context of the debt ceiling.

Compromise and negotiation already occurred to set the budget with the full knowledge that borrowing would be required to cover any deficit in said budget, and thus there should be no debate on whether or not we will pay what is owed.

Yeah, to be honest, I think the big thing saving his speakership right now is that nobody else really wants the gig. It's pretty much impossible to heard the 30 or so crazy Tea Party people with the rest of the congregation. It's not like Issa or Cantor want this gig. It is difficult to imagine too many scenarios where this ends and he keeps his gig though.

And yes, he is absolutely putting his job over the welfare of the country, and probably the 2014 political future of the GOP. This is a great way for Republicans to torpedo their chances at taking back the Senate next year, which is very possible.

Basically this. Boehner has backed down to the crazy caucus and probably even used it as a negotiating tool before (I can just see him in the backroom in 2011 saying "geez, I want to help you, but have you seen the loonies I'm working with over here?"). But now, they are running the place and he's apparently saving whatever remains of his influence to pass the debt ceiling increase, breaking The Almighty Hastert Suggestion That Isn't a Codified Rule but is Still Treated as Such if necessary.

He needs to rate his job security a little lower on the priority scale--after all, if nobody else wants it, nobody is going to run against him.

 

[KMRblue1027]

When do we hit the dept ceiling? Before Oct 16 or after?

 

[Cutlass]

When do we hit the dept ceiling? Before Oct 16 or after?

Probably the 17th, I heard.