Would there be another possible leader for Gauls than Vercingetorix ?

[Naokaukodem]

Please enlight me.

 

[Zaarin]

Dumnorix would be my top choice. His brother Divitiacus/Diviciacus would work well, too. Ambiorix might be a popular choice, but I'd prefer he not be chosen as he was leader of the Belgae, who weren't Gauls (accounts vary as to whether they were Celticized Germans or Germanized Celts or a mixture of both, but even Caesar distinguishes them from the Gauls proper).

 

[Naokaukodem]

Thx. It's funny to see in the links you provided that the political movements were already pretty "modern".

I found this list also, but it's in french. http://apre.vendee.over-blog.com/article-33415482.html

 

[fredrikslicer]

Postmus of the Gallic Empire could work depending on how you design the gaulish civ

 

[Nizou]

I agree, Postumus lead the Gallic Empire, so it could work for Gaulish Civilization but could also lead Roman Empire seeing Gallic Empire history : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallic_Empire ;
Ambiorix would better work in a Celtic blob civilization

 

[Zaarin]

Postumus was a Roman and the Gallic Empire was made up of Romans; they were centuries too late to be considered Gauls. The Gaulish language was all but dead except in the most rural areas. Gaulish religion was dead. Gaulish culture was dead. The Romans had a saying that the Gallic Romans were more Roman than Rome itself. I see absolutely no point in portraying the "Gallic Empire" as distinct from Rome.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Ambiorix might be a popular choice, but I'd prefer he not be chosen as he was leader of the Belgae, who weren't Gauls (accounts vary as to whether they were Celticized Germans or Germanized Celts or a mixture of both, but even Caesar distinguishes them from the Gauls proper).

I'd rather have him lead the Gauls/Celts than the Belgians to be honest. There is definitely *something* that could make a Belgian civ work, but if Ambiorix leads it it would a disastrous Scotland-like abomination.

 

[Zaarin]

I'd rather have him lead the Gauls/Celts than the Belgians to be honest. There is definitely *something* that could make a Belgian civ work, but if Ambiorix leads it it would a disastrous Scotland-like abomination.

Well, the Belgians are also not the Belgae. A Celtic blob civ is really the only thing I could see Ambiorix leading, and I don't want a Celtic blob civ.

 

[fredrikslicer]

Postumus was a Roman and the Gallic Empire was made up of Romans; they were centuries too late to be considered Gauls. The Gaulish language was all but dead except in the most rural areas. Gaulish religion was dead. Gaulish culture was dead. The Romans had a saying that the Gallic Romans were more Roman than Rome itself. I see absolutely no point in portraying the "Gallic Empire" as distinct from Rome.

The language shift was uneven in its progress and shaped by sociological factors. Although there was a presence of retired veterans in colonies, these did not significantly alter the linguistic composition of Gaul's population, of which 90% was autochthonous;[43][44] instead, the key Latinizing class was the coopted local elite, who sent their children to Roman schools and administered lands for Rome. In the 5th century, at the time of the Western Roman collapse, the vast majority (non-elite and predominantly rural) of the population remained Gaulish speakers, and acquired Latin as their native speech only after the demise of the Empire, as both they and the new Frankish ruling elite adopted the prestige language of their urban literate elite.[42] - Wiki

So hardly dead then nor small in its extent

As for religion the cult of Epona was still alive via the romans and since the romans typically coopted existing religions much of theirs had simply blended with the roman one which would have been rather localised. While one can argue both about the motives of Postmus and the nature of the empire it stands clear that if in the 5th century the gaulish language was still alive in the rural areas (prior to modernity people lived out in the countryside) futhermore the romans did incorperate gaulish craftsmanship in artwork and production.

Futhermore in "The Geography of Power Studies in the Urbanization of Roman North-West Europe" Tonnes Bekker-Nielsen (Which I admittadley skimmed) discusses that unlike Ceslapine Gaul which was heavily colonized the region of Three Gauls wasnt rather it was tide together with a series of civitates as opposed to colonies.

"The Three Gauls, however, posed altogether different problems, since these provinces were unsuited, in extent and in climate, to the policy of assimilation through colonization. A bare minimum of three colonies were founded at strategic points (Lyon, Nyon, Augst). Instead, numerous civitas-capitals were established, having the outward form of the Roman city, but a new content. Political stability and economic growth were assured by linking the pattern of civitates closely to pre-Roman structures of power and to existing elites. This gave some civitates unusually large territories, too large for efficient agricultural exploitation based on the city;· but this was beside. the point. Unlike the colonies, civitates were not founded to facilitate agricultural exploitation of the territory by Roman veterans. Their purpose was to facilitate fiscal exploitation of the inhabitants by Romanized administrators - and the recruitment of soldiers from the Gallic population." - page 66

Thus I repeat that it depends on how you design the Civ itself an example would be:

C. Ability: Cult of Epona
Horses generate +2 faith, Silver and Copper mines grant +1 Production

L. Ability (Postmus): Three Gauls
Gain acess to Legions, For every 3 farms gain +2 Food

UU: Ambaxtoi: Replaces warrior, Has sligthly higher attack than warrior, death gives points to great general
UB: Murus Gallicus: Replaces ancient wall, can be completed by builders

As an example

 

[Uberfrog]

This is interesting stuff, but within a Civ 6 context the “Gallic Empire” is clearly a bunch of free cities that existed for a few turns when the Romans entered a Dark Age.

While remnants of Gaulish culture persisted until the Middle Ages, it was not really a resurgence of indigenous authority, and hardly a basis for a Gaulish Civ

 

[fredrikslicer]

This is interesting stuff, but within a Civ 6 context the “Gallic Empire” is clearly a bunch of free cities that existed for a few turns when the Romans entered a Dark Age.

While remnants of Gaulish culture persisted until the Middle Ages, it was not really a resurgence of indigenous authority, and hardly a basis for a Gaulish Civ

Bit more than just a few cities but I see what you mean which is why I emphazised the elements that worked in some form of continuity between gaulish and romano-gaulish administration. Epona for instance managed to become a popular god within the empire in general, the craftsmanship of the gauls likewise became influential, the former tribe warriors became legionaries and the Murus Gallicus were there by the time romans came and they didn´t mind

Granted I do like to argue for unorthodox and odd solutions for the hell of it

 

[Zaarin]

TBH I'm quite happy having no Celtic civ if we're just going to have Romanized Gaul. We might as well bring back Queen Stereotype and her Iceni at that point. The appeal of the Gauls is that they had a sophisticated culture before Rome. I find Roman history incredibly boring, and I really don't want Rome given the Greek treatment. We don't need every Roman splinter faction given its own civ. And yes, I've advocated strongly for the inclusion of Palmyra. The difference is that the Palmyrenes were not culturally Roman. They spoke Aramaic. They practiced a mixture of Judaism, Eastern Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Aramaic paganism. Zenobia's Palmyra represented a flowering of Semitic culture, not a splinter cell of Rome. And even then the only reason I find Zenobia's Palmyra viable is that it would function as a stand-in for 3,000 years of Aramaic history.

 

[fredrikslicer]

TBH I'm quite happy having no Celtic civ if we're just going to have Romanized Gaul. We might as well bring back Queen Stereotype and her Iceni at that point. The appeal of the Gauls is that they had a sophisticated culture before Rome. I find Roman history incredibly boring, and I really don't want Rome given the Greek treatment. We don't need every Roman splinter faction given its own civ. And yes, I've advocated strongly for the inclusion of Palmyra. The difference is that the Palmyrenes were not culturally Roman. They spoke Aramaic. They practiced a mixture of Judaism, Eastern Christianity, Zoroastrianism, and Aramaic paganism. Zenobia's Palmyra represented a flowering of Semitic culture, not a splinter cell of Rome. And even then the only reason I find Zenobia's Palmyra viable is that it would function as a stand-in for 3,000 years of Aramaic history.

Fair enough.

I will steal the Palmyra Idea

 

[earlofbrigand]

Asterix

 

[Naokaukodem]

"We are eating your baguettes and are reading your Asterix"

 

[Zaarin]

I will steal the Palmyra Idea

Please do. I'm hoping to meme her into Civ7 like Tamar of Georgia in Rise & Fall.

 

[Naokaukodem]

So, who is the Gaul leader ?

 

[Uberfrog]

Almost certainly Vercingetorix.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Almost certainly Vercingetorix.

Actually it could be Ambiorix because apparently the capital in the video was Aduatuca. Of course it could be another case like Shaka where he got the wrong capital.
Looks like they might be lumping Gaul together with the Belgae and give the modern-day Belgium their national hero.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Almost certainly Vercingetorix.

Vercingetorix is the 'safe' choice, but by no means the only one.
In military/militaristc choices, there are:

Bodugnatus of the Nervii, the people came very close to whipping the Romans in open battle - a very rare feat.
Dumnorix of the Aedui already mentioned
Brennos or Brennus, who led the invasion of Greece

My own favorite choice, though, would be Divitiacus, already mentioned. He is the only Druid known by name to history, and according to Romans who met him was knowledgeable about mathematics, medicine, astronomy/astrology/divination, natural history and diplomacy, and apparently fluent in Latin as well as his native language. Unfortunately, we appear to be getting a metallurgical and militant set of Gauls, but Divitiacus would make a fascinating 'alternate Leader' with Diplomatic and/or Scientific features.

Of course, for a truely militaristic/metal working Gallic leader, we could always have Fulliautomatix the blacksmith from Asterix.

I'm also hoping for a Modern UI for the Gauls, a shopping center specializing in high-end jewelry and metal work called La Gaulleria.