Would you Settle it?

[Stalker0]

Both to help with settling strategy, and to help devs improve the AI. I want a thread in which I look at new cities the AI has just made that I consider "questionable" as to its viability, and want your thoughts. Maybe I am being too stingy with my city settling thoughts, or maybe the AI is just filling up space at no benefit to themselves. Also note the turn time (on Standard Speed), as perhaps that would adjust your thinking.

I am going to start with one exhibit and a poll, and grow the poll over time as I add more entries. Also happy to have other people submit entries, and I will update the poll.

NOTE: Lets assume the most wide favorable conditions. Aka an AI is playing policies and religions that suite a wide strategy.

Entry One

Spoiler :

 

[ICanHasName?]

6 good tiles and a desert for an academy or something, Wide AI should go for it. A player probably shouldnt.

 

[DeAnno]

It kind of depends on difficulty. On high enough difficulty I feel like the huge bonus trigger for settling significantly changes the calculus of where the AI should settle, for better or for worse. It also depends a little on if Assyria hates you or not, since a city there is going to lead to deteriorating relations.

 

[Stalker0]

It kind of depends on difficulty. On high enough difficulty I feel like the huge bonus trigger for settling significantly changes the calculus of where the AI should settle, for better or for worse. It also depends a little on if Assyria hates you or not, since a city there is going to lead to deteriorating relations.

Fair point. So to make this an easier, more academic exercise, lets just look purely at the terrain. Lets not look at difficulty bonuses or diplomatic repurcussions, just purely....is this a good place to settle?

 

[Recursive]

Highly difficult to defend, especially considering the distance to Assyria's empire. Yields aren't that bad, but I'd be wary unless I had a big navy to defend it.

 

[tothePAIN]

No, not unless I was planning to go to war with Portugal.

 

[CrazyG]

I don't think that's a good settle for defense reasons. Also a settler at this stage and not waiting for a pioneer seems bad.

 

[azum4roll]

Definitely not. Even an AI can't defend that spot.

 

[Melchizedek]

Not as is. I think an AI that settles such a location is immersion breaking. However, is there any chance the AI can see resources you can't? If there is a bunch of oil or coal there, it would make more sense. It also could be a useful forward base if planning an invasion of Portugal.

 

[amateurgamer88]

That's a decent location if war is planned and the civilizations are reversed. If I'm playing Portugal, just unlocked the Nau and want to control the waters, this is probably a great place to launch an attack. There's decent choke points to force enemy naval units through to mitigate their numerical advantage while Galleass only have 1 range so the city isn't as exposed as some might think. A few friendly ranged naval units should end any amphibious landing while the capture of a city at Goa should give you plenty of pressure on the local waters. Otherwise, that's a pretty bad spot to settle.

 

[ICanHasName?]

I dont really agree with the defense issue. They may not ever even fight portugal, and the difference between losing the city and never having it is the cost of one settler. Plus if you do fight Portugal it makes a good base for it. Assuming the AI will someday launch huge cross continent land and sea invasions again, the city will make a good early warning system.

Given the AIs bonuses I think it should settle, unless happiness is so low that pop in that city would come at the expense of pop elsewhere. Based on the assumptions in the original post I am assuming the AI will have plenty of extra happys for it.

 

[Cokolwiek]

Lol, it's great for Assyria if it's planning a war and if he has many other coastal cities.
Portugal has 5 units. Of course warmonering AI should settle it.

 

[DeAnno]

Portugal has 5 units. Of course warmonering AI should settle it.

Yeah that's a good catch, and we can see they're 3xSpear, Pathfinder, Boat. Looks ripe for invasion, this is a nice forward base.

 

[InkAxis]

Yeah that's a good catch, and we can see they're 3xSpear, Pathfinder, Boat. Looks ripe for invasion, this is a nice forward base.

Does the AI know to use forward bases? @Recursive

 

[Cokolwiek]

Does the AI know to use forward bases? @Recursive

Even if it doesn't know and it wasn't the purpose when AI was laying the city down, the city is quite good for a wide play and will generate border disputes. And in any event of war will be used as forwards base as AI likes to attack with fleets.
It is Goa that is far more defenseless and has nearly as much water tiles to be attacked from.

The city itself is decent enough even for the warmongering, especially with progress and imperialism. It will have good food and gold, decent enough production after a stable and two or three engineers, it can get quite productive after seaport. It can even have good science, but science and culture are mostly irrelevant when placing cities when you are wide and depend more on policy and wonders as you want spread out guilds.
The question if AI should wait until pioneers is irrelevant. It will have 30 turns advance, will be six or seven citizens in 10 turns from settling, and it will have all the relevant buildings built and maybe more with AI bonuses.

 

[CrazyG]

NOTE: Lets assume the most wide favorable conditions. Aka an AI is playing policies and religions that suite a wide strategy.

I want to make a note of this. This city has very little potential to generate culture. There is a very real possibility that it can't produce enough culture to make up the cost increase.

IDK if the AI's bonuses help offset this though, but for a human player this would hurt culture a lot, unless you have a spare guild, creativity, or progress.

It's probably okay in science because he is Assyria, but you need very specific social policies and religious beliefs for late cities with crap tiles such as this one to help your help both culture and science, not hurt.

 

[azum4roll]

The AI does NOT factor into the bonuses they'll get when planning moves. If they plan to invade Portugal soon it's a nice forward base, but if left long enough Portugal might become stronger and take the city instead.

And later on, the city might lose connection to the capital and is left to fend for itself against all the cities around.

 

[Cokolwiek]

And later on, the city might lose connection to the capital and is left to fend for itself against all the cities around.

The same points applies to Goa. Portugal is settling another city on the north badly protected so it will initiate war with Assyria. Anyway, from what I see, it will be far easier to Assyria to get massive fleet and come with it than Portugal to change its mind about reckless expansion.

 

[Recursive]

Does the AI know to use forward bases? @Recursive

To an extent. AIs with high Boldness flavors (which is tied to the AI's Domination Victory desire) are more likely to settle closer to opponents, and the AI compares its military strength with the military strength of anyone near its settling spot - if the other player is weaker they're more likely to settle closer.

 

[Necamijat]

Are we ranking it purely on terrain, or are we also ranking it based on distance to mainland, distance to enemy, diplomatic backlash?

If I were Portugal, I'd settle it. If I were not Portugal, I'd only settle if I knew I'd go to war with Portugal in the near future and can obtain the neighbourhood.