Would you stay or flee?

[MobBoss]

No I typed it out and then realised I'd missed the point I was trying to make at which point you lept on it, and it was too late both times, I had googled a website that was innacurate and then when I tried to correct my error you were there, *****ing like an infant. your just a big child. Go **** with someone who cares.

If you get your kicks from demeaning others your demeaning yourself not me.

This type of behavior is beneath contempt.

It's ashame that post times aren't shown it would show you up for the pedant you are. Do you really need this? is it making you feel like a big man.

First of all did I use any demeaning language in pointing out that Iran was Persian, and not Arabic? No.

But I guess no one is supposed to correct Sidhe....or he might just throw a fit.

Duly noted. And actually, post times are shown and when you last edited a thread as well......you may want to check that.

Edit: Yup...if you go badk and look, you didnt edit your post until after I had posted my reply. Nice try.

 

[El Justo]

i'm too old to be drafted but...

to be honest, if there was a draft in the US and i was eligible for it, i'd enlist before my number was called. that way, i could stay out of the army and join the branch of my choosing.

 

[Moss]

Tis unfortunate that I cannot serve in the military...

so I'm safe.

 

[Chukchi Husky]

I can't be conscripted because of mental problems.

 

[MjM]

I'd stay and fight, I'm no coward.

 

[Sidhe]

First of all did I use any demeaning language in pointing out that Iran was Persian, and not Arabic? No.

But I guess no one is supposed to correct Sidhe....or he might just throw a fit.

Duly noted. And actually, post times are shown and when you last edited a thread as well......you may want to check that.

Edit: Yup...if you go badk and look, you didnt edit your post until after I had posted my reply. Nice try.

But i didn't have time to see your post, sop stfu please your just digging yourself into the bigot hole as you usually do.

Honeslty are you that lame that you think deriding other posters make you appear big and clever? Are you that shallow and obnoxious that your only victories come from a small point you can excalate into some sort of I am right and you are wrong slanging match, are you really that pathetic.

1) I posted

2) secs later you pointed that out

3) I took note of your statment and googled some facts they were in error

4) secs later you leapt on it

5) I checked the info and found the error

6) I tried to correct my post and admit my mistake

7) your colossal pedantry kicked in a few secs after I'd made the second post

8) I admitted the fault without seeing any other your subsequent posts

9) I swear on my mothers life that is true and she's still alive

10) can you stfu now please your continuously seeking to demean people I find it ignorant and arrogant, either stay on topic or stop chastising people for imagined slights, it's very childish.

 

[MobBoss]

But i didn't have time to see your post, sop stfu please your just digging yourself into the bigot hole as you usually do.

?? How is correcting you making me a bigot? Can you please explain that one for us?

@moss: Care to elaborate?

@El Justo: Quick FYI, the military is taking new enlistees up to the age of 40 these days.

 

[Evil Tyrant]

I'd stay, and do my duty while trying to get through the war in one piece. Conciencious objectors should be put to work as medics and help put me back together if my attempts at getting through in one piece fail.

 

[ndtim]

I haven't actually posted on these forums too long, but I'd have to say MobBoss is the biggest a-hole around here. Not in the sense of being a mean person...more in the sense that a group of well-adjusted people wouldn't want him around and would try to avoid him. I wonder if maybe he is just young and has some growing up to do...or if he is older and his development just got stunted somehow

 

[El Justo]

@El Justo: Quick FYI, the military is taking new enlistees up to the age of 40 these days.

really?

the wife wouldn't be so keen on this although when i was in my sr year of college, i was approached by by some Air Natl Gd peeps and they promised additional college financing as well as OTS. enticing if i was younger...but not when i'm about to start making babies.

i hate to admit it but if one flees, i'm afraid that you're a coward in my book. sorry.

concientious objection is one thing but fleeing is another matter altogether.

 

[El_Machinae]

"A society that will not be defended willingly by its members is a society that is not worth defending."

 

[MobBoss]

I haven't actually posted on these forums too long, but I'd have to say MobBoss is the biggest a-hole around here.

Why thank you. And I ddint get you a thing. Shame on me. And this is constructive to the thread how?

Not in the sense of being a mean person...more in the sense that a group of well-adjusted people wouldn't want him around and would try to avoid him.

Well...as long as I am not mean.

I wonder if maybe he is just young and has some growing up to do...or if he is older and his development just got stunted somehow

Wow....are you an expert on stunted development? Credentials please? Back Troll...Back under your bridge!!!!

really?

Really really. Basically, they will take anyone that is qualified 20 years prior to mandatory retirement...which is 60 years old.

the wife wouldn't be so keen on this although when i was in my sr year of college, i was approached by by some Air Natl Gd peeps and they promised additional college financing as well as OTS. enticing if i was younger...but not when i'm about to start making babies.

Well....my wife had all our babies while I was in the military....all born in military hospitals. Cost me a grand total of $27.00. 9 bucks each time. That wasnt a bad deal.

I hate to admit it but if one flees, i'm afraid that you're a coward in my book. sorry.

concientious objection is one thing but fleeing is another matter altogether.

Totally agree.

 

[Vietcong]

its not my fight, and not my war

infact, the islamic extreamist chold be a great american allie
imagin the power the 2 combined forces whold have, nothing chold stand.

 

[Evil Tyrant]

its not my fight, and not my war

infact, the islamic extreamist chold be a great american allie
imagin the power the 2 combined forces whold have, nothing chold stand.

Except that the Islamic extremists want to kill us. But that's just details.

 

[Yeeek]

You can't say what you'd do. Because you and i have no idea what it is. I did my military service. Last year of conscription in France, my luck i guess and i mean it. I wish it was still running but that is another debate. While it was really different from what imagined (in a good way), to be drafted in time of war would have been different and have huge impact on me. No doubt.

Also i don't really understand the question. I need more information, is it a national draft because a foreign army invaded or is it a world war of some kind or iraq-like/vietnam type of war?

In any case, someone who is happy to go to war is deranged or not honest with himself. Even if you feel it is your duty, you can't be happy at the thought of smelling rotten corpse, the taste of blood in your mouth, the dying of fallen comrades and the rest of the atrocities you'll encounter in your every day life as a trooper in a war.

I'd be most likely confronted with the will of staying with the people i love, flee with them to a safer place and/or the thought of giving my life so, the ones i love could still live in freedom. But if i think about it, my single life wouldn't change anything, would it? If people feels like giving away their life in a careless, meaningless way is how it has to be. Good for them. I would however try to live and stay with my people as long as i can.

 

[mdwh]

It's worth pointing out that the position I've taken is that of a conscientious objector. Please note that this doesn't mean you flee or shirk from the fight. It simply means that you won't take part in killing people.

There are plenty of ways to 'fight the good fight' that don't require you compromising your morals (which are deeper than any patriotism will ever be). These could be working in hospitals, working in arms factories (doubt I'd go for this one), making propaganda films, building railways, communications etc etc. See the quoted text for more.

I disagree.

That applies if you just can't bring yourself to pull the trigger yourself - but if someone is opposed to killing people, they're not going to be happy with making the bullets to help kill people, either!

All the above presumes that I would actually agree to the definition of the enemy and the threat and want to repell them btw.

Yes, that's true. It's sad that it's often assumed that being a conscientious objector is black or white; that you have to be opposed to killing, when a far more likely situation is that someone isn't necessarily against any killing or war, but that they oppose a particular war.

 

[mdwh]

Just so you know...there are certain qualifications that you must meet in order to qualify as a conscientious objector. You cant just make that claim and walk away...you must be able to prove that it is an ideology that you have lived prior to being selected by the draft - i.e. extensive volunteer work in a church, being a quaker, etc...

I wonder - does "I've never killed anyone" not count?

I do find needing to prove your morality a bit odd, when this isn't something that is usually connected to external actions. The only way you can do it is by seeing if you've been acting contrary to what you claim to believe (i.e., killing people).

I fail to see how volunteer work or things to do with Christianity are related to pacifism.

Exactly, and guess what? The military has such jobs available as well. Conscientious objectors can serve in the miltiary as well....as a combat medic for example....get out there and save lives and not use a gun.

I do enjoy telling people that they can still serve in the military as a conscientious objector. Once they find out there are jobs where you dont kill people, their face just kind of goes slack because their reason for not serving goes right out the window.

I find that odd, as I say in my previous post.

The point is this. If a bunch of people want to shoot at each other, and I want no part in that, then it is not up to me to make weapons for you, nor is it up to me to help you out when you inevitably get shot, especially if I'm going to get shot at. I find it ludicrous that someone would suggest otherwise, to be honest.

 

[Fifty]

I'd do whatever the heck I had to do to stay alive. I have absolutely zero patriotism. Beyond that, I would never even put the needs of others in front of my survival in ANY scenario. I don't want to die. If given a hypothetical choice between killing ten kids and dying myself, I'd kill the kids.

 

[FriendlyFire]

Another myth. Due to a lot of restructering and agriculteral support even from the military, a lot of their food shortage issues have been solved. Remember, Clinton gave them a lot of food aid based upon the belief they wouldnt advance their nuke weapons capability - they lied and did it anyway, smiling while they took our aid.

US Aid was halted under Bush.
Partly because of both sides. NKoera promised nuclear and rocket dismarment (also piviotal were SK to the talks) while the Us promised Aid and heavy water reactors. Boths side reneged on there negosiated on settlement.

The SK had pursused a "sunshine" policy (Think cold war detenant) which i believed shaped the negosiated settlement

 

[MobBoss]

I wonder - does "I've never killed anyone" not count?

Heh, nope. Regardless of popular opinion...your average recruit into the military hasnt killed anyone either.

I do find needing to prove your morality a bit odd, when this isn't something that is usually connected to external actions. The only way you can do it is by seeing if you've been acting contrary to what you claim to believe (i.e., killing people).

Its not odd at all. People will try/say anything to get out of war. However, its easy to see if a conscientous objector has indeed been "walking the walk" when it comes to their views. Those who have had, shall we say a "last minute conversion" need not apply.

I fail to see how volunteer work or things to do with Christianity are related to pacifism.

You dont have to be a Christian to be a conscientous objector.

I find that odd, as I say in my previous post.

The point is this. If a bunch of people want to shoot at each other, and I want no part in that, then it is not up to me to make weapons for you, nor is it up to me to help you out when you inevitably get shot, especially if I'm going to get shot at. I find it ludicrous that someone would suggest otherwise, to be honest.

If it came down to a draft, for whatever reason, its every persons duty as a citizen to participate unless they have very good reason not to. Why should all your peers sacrifice to protect your home and country while you sit back at home twiddling your thumbs? They dont want to go to war anymore than you do, but it is their duty to defend their homeland.

That kind of selfishness would most likely get you jailed (if not something worse) in the advent of a national emergency that would require a draft.