civver_764
Deity
You sure about that?
Would you wear a Hijab in solidarity?
- Thread starter Ryika
- Start date
You sure about that?
Akka
Moody old mage.
Farm Boy
I hope you dance
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I dunno. I think if you view women wearing hijabs of thier own accord, in the west, as some sort of package to be unwrapped, or as something unpleasant to look at that you can criticize historically, instead of as a woman in her own clothes? Ew, yuck. Gross.
Well, I guess if you're enjoying playing dumb like that, have fun.
If believing that Men determined the 'appropriate' dress code for women back then is dumb, then yes, I'll have fun.
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
Biblical based laws were enforced in the bible belt until fairly recently and it's still illegal to sell alcohol on the sabbath in many places.
Akka
Moody old mage.
You realize we're talking about wearing the hijab today, and making comparison with what it stands for today (and what the nun's habits mean today) and not 700 years ago, do you ?If believing that Men determined the 'appropriate' dress code for women back then is dumb, then yes, I'll have fun.
Or are you not just playing dumb but actually the real deal ?
civver_764
Deity
What day is it anyways?
Yep.
So? Some churches/denominations hold those laws as valid. Others have totally different rules. The only real unifying characteristic of Christians is acceptance of Christ and the Gospels (who hardly lay out a political platform).
Bugfatty300
Buddha Squirrel
So? So you were incorrect. The Gospels reaffirmed the biblical law from old testament upon which Sharia is also based. So some Christians rightfully choose to ignore some or all biblical laws but the laws themselves don't change. And Muslims can and do ignore their religious laws when those laws become bothersome enough. It's as inherently arbitrary in Islam as it is in Christianity.
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
Hell no. I'm not going to wear something people in several countries are forced to wear under penalty of arrest, torture, or death in some idiotic gesture of"solidarity".
If anything, people should refuse to wear religious headdress of any kind.
If anything, people should refuse to wear religious headdress of any kind.
civver_764
Deity
Even if they want to?
Broken_Erika
Play with me.
What about pasta strainers?
VicRatlhead5199
King
Every Saturday and the first Tuesday of every month.
danjuno
Cole Phelps, Badge 1247
I'm talking about the protest in question.
inthesomeday
Immortan
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There's nothing inherent to Islam that is oppressive to women; in fact, Islam is, ideologically speaking, kinder to women than at least either of the other Abrahamic religions. There's terrible sexism in Muslim countries just like there's terrible sexism everywhere, though, and one way that sexism manifests itself is in forcing women to dress a certain way under penalty of death. The particular aspects of that dress are certainly unique to Islamic culture as a result of the area where most Islamic societies flourished historically, but nonetheless this is by no means a uniquely Muslim development. For example, women in America who dress "promiscuously" often fall under just the same victim-blaming patriarchal wrath that women in Muslim countries do when they suffer sexual assault, the issue is just that the governments of nations like Saudi Arabia and Iran are essentially theocracies and so this misogynistic violence is more institutionalized than here. More to do with the government than the religion itself; Puritan theocracies in New England had similar customs when it came to the punishment of women.
While it's true that the hijab can be a symbol of sexist oppression, it's got more to do with the theocracies (which the US installed) than the religion itself. So don't go thinking of Muslim men or Islam the religion as any more sexist than other men or religions, just recognize the fact that conservative theocracies are repressive towards their citizens by nature. Plus for many Muslim women headdresses are just sort of part of their way of life, as much as you or I would consider wearing any article of clothing, there's just an Islamophobic trend in modern thought that falsely attributes some over-representative examples of violence against women to an entire culture and religion.
While it's true that the hijab can be a symbol of sexist oppression, it's got more to do with the theocracies (which the US installed) than the religion itself. So don't go thinking of Muslim men or Islam the religion as any more sexist than other men or religions, just recognize the fact that conservative theocracies are repressive towards their citizens by nature. Plus for many Muslim women headdresses are just sort of part of their way of life, as much as you or I would consider wearing any article of clothing, there's just an Islamophobic trend in modern thought that falsely attributes some over-representative examples of violence against women to an entire culture and religion.
Timsup2nothin
Deity
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And yet Christians have been, and in many cases still are, just as inclined to try to use the law to force their beliefs on others as anyone else is. Just off the cuff I'd say there is at least as high a percentage of 'shariaists' among US Christians as there is among US Muslims. And because of the Christian influence in politics they are much more dangerous.
Syno
Deity
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- 24,885
To elaborate slightly: there are laws and sects of societal belief within the US that are based on the puritans, a staunchly Christian group. Code of conduct for women and lessers is fairly standard within the Abrahamic religions.
Zkribbler
Deity
Wow, the Pope must really tick you off.
Akka
Moody old mage.
Now that you point it out, I don't especially mind the Pope, priests, imams or rabbins. I guess I give them a pass because their very work is about religion, and what annoys me is more when regular people make a display of their religious opinion.
(probably just like I don't mind when a political leader show off his political ideas, but am annoyed by people with "support X" stickers, or people distributing tracts)
I have a mixed opinion on the wearing of hijab. As far as the original question, no I would never wear it because I'm a man.
People keep making comparisons between Christianity and Islam and the enforcement of dress and strict lifestyles. They seem to be making their own arguments against themselves sometimes because they mention covering the head and wearing the wimple like Christian women did in the Middle Ages, unintentionally pointing out that Christianity has progressed beyond this time while Islam in some areas has not.
Even many nuns these days no longer wear the habit in America, I'm not sure how common that is in some other countries. It depends on the particular order of nuns I believe.
On the other hand, I've got to know and worked with many women who do wear the headscarf and I've also known women who were practicing Muslims who don't wear it at all. Some Muslim women argue that it's not required although I think this is a minority opinion. In both cases I didn't get the feeling they were especially oppressed or that wearing it made such a difference to that.
In many Muslim countries women don't have as much freedom because of the family's reputation, like if she goes out alone at night or smokes in public or drinks or marries someone her family doesn't approve of (this last one can apply to men as well) then the family's reputation suffers and it's a problem, so this is restricted. But wearing a headscarf doesn't necessarily mean these restrictions go away.
I've heard from Saudi women's activists that wearing the veil is actually low on the list of priorities and some of them don't mind it. Getting rid of the guardianship system that legally puts male control over women's ability to travel abroad among other things is higher up.
I know many people could bring up isolated instances of extremist Christians identical to what we see among extremist Muslims but I think this is largely irrelevant. Christianity doesn't have nearly the power that Islam has in the 21st century. That's a bold statement and I agree Christianity has a lot of political power but not like Islam.
But to go back to some statements in this thread - I don't think even in Iran or Saudi Arabia that women face the death sentence for not wearing hijab. I think that would only happen in al-Qaeda or ISIS controlled territories and even then maybe they would just apply some other lesser punishment. And almost all Muslim majority countries don't legally mandate it. I think in the city I live in, about 40% maybe don't wear it. You almost never see women in niqab here.
I guess you're talking about Mossadegh and U.S. support for Saudi Arabia but honestly I think to suggest the U.S. installed those theocracies (only in Iran would it be a literal theocracy I think) is a real exaggeration.
People keep making comparisons between Christianity and Islam and the enforcement of dress and strict lifestyles. They seem to be making their own arguments against themselves sometimes because they mention covering the head and wearing the wimple like Christian women did in the Middle Ages, unintentionally pointing out that Christianity has progressed beyond this time while Islam in some areas has not.
Even many nuns these days no longer wear the habit in America, I'm not sure how common that is in some other countries. It depends on the particular order of nuns I believe.
On the other hand, I've got to know and worked with many women who do wear the headscarf and I've also known women who were practicing Muslims who don't wear it at all. Some Muslim women argue that it's not required although I think this is a minority opinion. In both cases I didn't get the feeling they were especially oppressed or that wearing it made such a difference to that.
In many Muslim countries women don't have as much freedom because of the family's reputation, like if she goes out alone at night or smokes in public or drinks or marries someone her family doesn't approve of (this last one can apply to men as well) then the family's reputation suffers and it's a problem, so this is restricted. But wearing a headscarf doesn't necessarily mean these restrictions go away.
I've heard from Saudi women's activists that wearing the veil is actually low on the list of priorities and some of them don't mind it. Getting rid of the guardianship system that legally puts male control over women's ability to travel abroad among other things is higher up.
I know many people could bring up isolated instances of extremist Christians identical to what we see among extremist Muslims but I think this is largely irrelevant. Christianity doesn't have nearly the power that Islam has in the 21st century. That's a bold statement and I agree Christianity has a lot of political power but not like Islam.
But to go back to some statements in this thread - I don't think even in Iran or Saudi Arabia that women face the death sentence for not wearing hijab. I think that would only happen in al-Qaeda or ISIS controlled territories and even then maybe they would just apply some other lesser punishment. And almost all Muslim majority countries don't legally mandate it. I think in the city I live in, about 40% maybe don't wear it. You almost never see women in niqab here.
I guess you're talking about Mossadegh and U.S. support for Saudi Arabia but honestly I think to suggest the U.S. installed those theocracies (only in Iran would it be a literal theocracy I think) is a real exaggeration.
