wow.. i have actually won

[mzprox]

I usually don't make topics about my victories, but since i made one about my lost game (with lots of cry ) and an other where i said there is no way to win: (http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292925 )


well.. i was wrong.. i have won that fight suprisingly easy




i didn't think it was possible, but some one said that it should be winable at this ratio so i tried it..
in my first game the REF had around 80% winning ratio when attacked my fortified cities, this time (following an advice) i didnt let them attacking at all. in the first round of the war i had win 4 fight in a row when my wining chance (according to the program) was 11%. now i dont know if it was just a big luck or there is an error about this percentage. Anyway my wining ratio was better than expected ( one of my general still died at 98,5% win% )

A short summary about the fight:
-In a first few turn 2 good founding fathers joined, the one who gives veteran I promotion to all my units (very welcome ) and the one who makes gumsmithing faster by the tax rate. i was happy first but this was actually useless. by the end of the war i had so much gun i couldnt do anything with them ( i filled 3 galleon and 5 wagon, then throw away the rest ) i produced 200+ gun/turn (99 in one city ).
-they attacked 4 different city but most of the fight was under my northest one. i have noticed that if they have a plan where to land they will try even if i have troops there. i made advantage of this by fortifing these landing positions (putting soldiers with ranger promotions into the forest for example)
-I had lots of general, all got the surgeon III promotion
-i have also rotated my population in the besieged cities. put the almost dead soldier to farm and made a soldier from the previous farmer. He can even attack in the same turn. i dont know exactly how fast the units heal while they are working in the colony but it seems very fast.



2 more pictures from the end:





(ps the settings were: Governor diff.(no reload ofc), normal speed )

 

[obsolete]

-i have also rotated my population in the besieged cities. put the almost dead soldier to farm and made a soldier from the previous farmer. He can even attack in the same turn. i dont know exactly how fast the units heal while they are working in the colony but it seems very fast.

Hmm, that sounds like a LOT of micromanagement for those huge battles. I also suspect it was not intended for players to do that rotation bit. But if they decide to allow it, I really don't think a unit at almost 0 health should still be allowed to produce maximum output.

 

[mzprox]

Hmm, that sounds like a LOT of micromanagement for those huge battles.

this game was a micromanagement nightmare anyway.. i did all the transports manually for example . now i know how to automate them

I also suspect it was not intended for players to do that rotation bit. But if they decide to allow it, I really don't think a unit at almost 0 health should still be allowed to produce maximum output.

I dont know if it was intended or not " a wounded lumberjack gives his weapon to the elder stateman to defend the village in the next turn" production was not a concern, so i wouldnt mind if the unit just goes to a hospital for a few turns.

(btw i miss that feature from col1 that the colonist could pick up a weapon to defend their cities if there was no garrison. A founding father needed for this)

 

[obsolete]

The more I think about it, the more I think this is a really HUGE exploit.

Alright, bad enough that a Dragoon(b-smith) can be put back into working on hammers, and give FULL production doing so. But... does he heal while working? If he does, this is doubly powerfull. That would mean, he effectively can still MOVE(action), give full Power(output), and Heal all at the same time. EEEEK.

Another thing... by constantly rotating units, it seems you would constantly gain free promotions due to the way the F-Fathers (military) work when added to your empire.

Hmmm, haven't tried it yet but I will look more closely at that in examination next game. I already thought the cheating by stockpiling weapons in trains and ships was bad enough...

 

[pvt chaos]

Wow, yes this does look like a big exploit. Im curious what the outcome would have been if you didnt rotate your units and just defended / attacked with the wounded one's. Do you think you still would have won or would it have been a close call then ?

 

[obsolete]

Hmm, well I had a chance to try it tonight, but I just couldn't bare to, ahah! I woudn't dare risk my precious specialists on attacks, unless I as sure to win (clean up), but then, they'd get promoted, and I would be like... wtf, I'll lose promoted units by putting them to work in the city again. So I'd just end up leaving my military units as military units.

Another reason was there was always SOMETHING just around the horizon that would get my attention... Oh well.

 

[Alsn]

Hmm, well I had a chance to try it tonight, but I just couldn't bare to, ahah! I woudn't dare risk my precious specialists on attacks, unless I as sure to win (clean up), but then, they'd get promoted, and I would be like... wtf, I'll lose promoted units by putting them to work in the city again. So I'd just end up leaving my military units as military units.

Another reason was there was always SOMETHING just around the horizon that would get my attention... Oh well.

As far as I know, units keep their promotions even when they are working inside a settlement.

Units also "remember" their promotions that are restricted to a unit type(for example if you have a ranger 2 soldier and change him into a dragoon he will lose those promotions but if you change him back they will be returned).

 

[mzprox]

Wow, yes this does look like a big exploit. Im curious what the outcome would have been if you didnt rotate your units and just defended / attacked with the wounded one's. Do you think you still would have won or would it have been a close call then ?

I don't think it's an exploit. Why would i attack with a wounded lumberjack when there was a fully healed elder statesman? colonist-colonist.

Anyway: if i wouldn't use this strategy and attack with the wounded units my losses could have been bigger by 5-10 soldiers max. since in the end i had 32 soldiers, 37 cannons and thousands of guns it still would have been a victory, i may have lost my north city, but it was not an important one. If i really would have got into trouble i had enough weapon to fully arm my 23 and 20 size cities. thats 41 soldiers . But it was not necessary. i lost some "civilian" in the north city but most of the losses were 40 lumberjacks who were imported from europe to cut REF instead of wood

 

[Viperace]

Good spirit, mzprox.

You said that you secured the landing site and defend, while rotating wounded unit with fresh one. Is that the main way you cut the REF?

Did you let them capture one of your city and then use your Cannon to bombard them (taking advantage of the 100% settlement bombard bonus) ?

 

[mzprox]

You said that you secured the landing site and defend, while rotating wounded unit with fresh one. Is that the main way you cut the REF?

I secured a forest below my northern city with soldiers and cannons. I dont know if i really had a big advantage, someone said the king's army dont get negatives for attacking from ship. Anyway i won 1/2-2/3 of these fights. but their wining and wounded units landed in the next turn next to one of my other city. those were killed by close to 100% chance. That rotation thing was not important, because i only did it in one smaller city. but it could have been.

Did you let them capture one of your city and then use your Cannon to bombard them (taking advantage of the 100% settlement bombard bonus) ?

no, but it could be a good tactic (dont build any fortification in the coastal cities, let them take it then use cannons which are waiting inland close enough to attack next turn )
I used my cannons to soften the enemy troops, so i sacrifised them even if i could have attacked with other units with better chance to win. i had 3 cities which produced cannons in 2-4 turns, and the others were producing them too just slower. Cannons bad for defending and they are the last for that role anyway: so they kill all the garrisoned troops first if i let them attacking... which i didn't

 

[Viperace]

I see...

Yes, some of the King's army has "amphibious" promotion which has no negatives impact for attacking from ship. Only some though , not all. I notice that the promotions for their army are quite diversified. Some has Formation, some has amphibious, some with +% VS cannon.

The let-go of one of your city and retake using Cannon is good tactic, I tried it last night. That's the best way to make efficient use of your Cannon. (Rather than cannon fodder-ing them )

 

[Gliese 581]

Hmm the rotate mechanic seems one more thing that could be exploited. Perhaps wounded units should not be permitted to work. They need to recuperate after all, not labour!

 

[mzprox]

Hmm the rotate mechanic seems one more thing that could be exploited. Perhaps wounded units should not be permitted to work. They need to recuperate after all, not labour!

After the war started this extra production won't make any difference. I still dont think this is an exploit, but if someone thinks it's overpowered then the solution would be that freshly made soldiers cannot move/attack in the same turn.

 

[obsolete]

As far as I know, units keep their promotions even when they are working inside a settlement.

Units also "remember" their promotions that are restricted to a unit type(for example if you have a ranger 2 soldier and change him into a dragoon he will lose those promotions but if you change him back they will be returned).

Right, just noticed that last game.

Anyhow, don't mind me when I say you're exploiting it. I'm guilty of the overwhealming & rediculous exploit of throwing cannons into settlements (like everyone else). I simply don't understand how something so broken got past beta-testing? There was a call for beta was there not?

I did finally beat the first level after figuring out how the non-sense works under the hood. And now I am rapidly going up the levels and finding there really isn't any difference between them. I have to admit culture seems to be one issue, and more Fathers get lost but... that's about it. Again, something definetly needs to be fixed here. It takes a forever for a GOOD player to beat the easiest level, and then he can immediately jump to the hardest and still basically win. O_o