Wow, Patronage Opener is *way* over-powered.

[Aussie_Lurker]

So, I'm in the Classical Era, & decide to purchase the Opener for the Patronage Tree (without checking the effects, I confess). Imagine my surprise when I was suddenly able to see about 2/3rds of the map...thanks to the "reveal all city states" ability. Sorry, guys, but that is just way, way too over-powered in my books...so much so that it has actually taken away my enjoyment of the current game. Is there any way to limit the reveal to City States in a certain area (same continent, within x hexes....that kind of thing?) Either way, it seriously needs changing. Might have to dump that game now I reckon, as all the mystery has gone out of it!

Aussie.

 

[stackpointer]

Please try to consolidate topics whenever possible. Such as posting in one of the policy threads or your own observations thread.

 

[je355804]

So, I'm in the Classical Era, & decide to purchase the Opener for the Patronage Tree (without checking the effects, I confess). Imagine my surprise when I was suddenly able to see about 2/3rds of the map...thanks to the "reveal all city states" ability. Sorry, guys, but that is just way, way too over-powered in my books...so much so that it has actually taken away my enjoyment of the current game. Is there any way to limit the reveal to City States in a certain area (same continent, within x hexes....that kind of thing?) Either way, it seriously needs changing. Might have to dump that game now I reckon, as all the mystery has gone out of it!

Aussie.

I guarantee you aren't playing on a high enough difficulty level if this has "broken" your game... Seeing city states tells you nothing of your opponents map.

 

[Ahriman]

Yeah, revealing city states is just a bad effect for a policy. It discourages exploration, and makes it too easy to start getting too many city states too soon (especially with protection pledges + the patronage influence boosters).

 

[Hreat]

My complaint about the patronage opener is actually the opposite - if you take it later, when you've already explored the map pretty well, it does nothing at all. A completely wasted policy that's a prereq for other policies you might want.

even when I take it early I've found the reveal to be pretty meh, pretty much showing me CSes thhat I can't reasonably get to regardless or ones I'd find soon enough by just continuing to send a scout/boat around the coastline. I guess how useful it is may depend a lot on the map/settings you play under and whether you build a lot of exploration units early, but in my usual playstyle I think it's one of the worst policies in the game.

 

[agc28]

I modded the opener. I removed the 'Reveal all CS'' effect, and added ''+4 Gold per trade route with CS".

You don't gain science at all by trading with CS. You should therefore gain some Gold in return.

 

[mystikx21]

Both this and the reveal map in Exploration are lame effects, not because of the power but because they're actively discouraging to one of the main game play features (running around the map exploring the dark).

I'd be fine with an effect that bumped the trade routes with CS as agc described instead unless a better idea surfaces.

 

[EricB]

I actually forgot that the core CEP mod has this effect on the Patronage opener. I removed it so long ago.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

I actually forgot that the core CEP mod has this effect on the Patronage opener. I removed it so long ago.

Oh, how do you remove it?

Aussie.

 

[EricB]

In order to change any policy effect there are a few things that you need to do.

First, you need to go into the core Civ5 files. It's in a directory under program files/steam/steamapps/civ5/assets/dlc/expansion2/gameplay/xml/gameinfo then in a file called Civ5Policies.xml. In that file you'll find all of the unmodded effects. Don't change anything in that file! Just see what the core effect is. For example, if you wanted to change the Patronage opener, search for the word "POLICY_PATRONAGE" in the file. You'll also find the patronage finisher in there, but ignore that. The core game has an effect of -25% influence decay rate for city states. It also gives a flavor of 20 for Diplomacy attached to the Patronage opener. Flavors are for the AI to know how to properly use something in the game. If you change what a policy does, you need to adjust the flavors too unless the change is so minor that it's really the same effect.

Next, go into the CEP files, it's under CEG/Policies/Trees. The mod does 3 things to the Patronage opener. It removes the unmodded effect of -25% decay rate by setting it to 0. It adds +2 gold per city state trade route by setting a variable CityStateTradeChange to 200. It also affects a variable called RevealMinorCapitals to 1 (which means true). To get rid of that effect, change it to 0. That would leave the policy pretty weak, so you may want to add something. You also might need to alter the policy flavors for the mod, which are in a file named CEAI_Policies.xml under the folder CEG/AI. For easy changes to add to a policy you're limited to what already exists in either the core game tables or mod tables. By spending some time examining the CIV5Policies file you can get a feel for how changes are made. There are many tables in that file. Altering the effect of a policy is a matter of adjusting the value of a variable in a particular table. You can use either SQL or XML to do it. Usually I use XML for policies, since this is how the mod does it.

After you've made the change that you want to make, you also need to modify the text. The easiest way to do this is to go to the file CEG/Text/EN_US/Policies.sql. There are all of the text tooltips for policies in that file. Find the one for the policy you're changing, and change the text to say whatever you want it to say. Be aware of the Icons such as [ICON_PRODUCTION] for example that can be added to make it more visually appealing. You can also use [NEWLINE] to insert a new line character into the text. I always try to make the new text match the formatting of existing policy texts so that it looks nice.

It's a bit of a learning curve the first time you try it, but once you figure out how the data is structured in both the core game and in the mod, then changes are easy to make. The hard part is making effects that are balanced and fun.

 

[Erikose]

I modded the opener. I removed the 'Reveal all CS'' effect, and added ''+4 Gold per trade route with CS".

You don't gain science at all by trading with CS. You should therefore gain some Gold in return.

+1 both for the idea and the reasoning behind it. I tend to trade exclusively with other civs - especially once I can trade by sea - as CSs cap out their gold value and I tend to need the science on king.

Only time I trade with a CS in mid to late game is to either deprive a rival civ of my gold/science or to temporarily boost my status with a CS asking for a trade route.

- Erikose

 

[EricB]

I have the opener for Patronage at +3 gold per city state trade route. I trade with city states all the time on that setting. Seems to be about the right balance.