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Wow, situational Venice is map dependent

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by julystork, Aug 13, 2013.

  1. julystork

    julystork Chieftain

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    because they cannot do wide expansions, they are forced to get by via trade.

    ...except if there are no civs/CSes near by you're practically doomed into tech-rushing to caravansaries

    So do you tech-rush or keep remaking new game until there are CS nearby?
     
  2. MattZed

    MattZed Warlord

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    It's pretty rare that nothing is "nearby." If you play the default 2:1 CS:Civ ratio, there's simply going to be at least one nearby CS. I've never restarted a Venice game. Since rushing optics is generally implied with Venice, you get sea trade routes, which have longer range than caravans. Venice's UU shares the same tech as harbors, so why wouldn't you also try to pick that up quickly? I don't really see this as a form of map dependence.
     
  3. sock ruh tease

    sock ruh tease Chieftain

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    My most isolated start as Venice involved only having one CS on my continent. I focused on getting to Optics to puppet the CS and have it send food to my capital (the food from an internal trade route is a lot higher than allying a maritime CS), then working on exploration and getting to Astronomy.

    I guess if I had a Venice start with literally no one else but barbs on my continent, I would get to Astronomy ASAP and work on food production to grow the capital fast.
     
  4. tomplum68

    tomplum68 Warlord

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    dont restart. a bad start is a challenge and just ups the ante
     
  5. Resipsa

    Resipsa King

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    My approach to Venice isn't to rush optics but get my Lux Tech and then rush to Collossus to get more trade routes. You'll be behind in tech but even on Diety you'll catch up by the Renaissance. The reason why I delay Optics unless its my lux tech is because the CS will grow and develop on its on if you "buy" the CS abit later it will have more stuff in it.
     
  6. headcase

    headcase Limit 1 Facepalm Per Turn

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    I've been more fortunate, but try getting the first tech that extends sea routes (Optics?), and see if your cargo ships can reach anyone after that.

    Also, just to be sure, did your triremes explore the whole area around Venice?

    The beauty of Venice in the long-term is you don't need to stake out land, just choose CSs when the time comes.

    Agreed. And on higher difficulties, their growth seems to scale up like with full civs.

    One reason to get CSs quickly is that they start making more merchants for you, but they won't be doing that until you have the tech that unlocks Markets anyway.
     
  7. Autoclave

    Autoclave Warlord

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    Pretty much this. I want to buy a decent, developed city state.
     
  8. Mauzel

    Mauzel Chieftain

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    Actually, some starts for venice are horrendous. Continental map, landlocked, with Germany pretty much surrounding you on all 4 sides while staying hostile to any attempt for open border - since they really REALLY want your land. Its like a really bad alternative HRE where you can only do land routes and can only do it with one nation.
     
  9. Lrd Dread

    Lrd Dread Prince

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    what is Lux Tech
     
  10. rondiggity

    rondiggity Chieftain

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    Lately I've been playing around with an Honor open for Venice. The early Great General helps to expand to a nearby lux that might be just beyond my reach, and of course the bonuses versus barbarians are nice.

    I'm normally a REX player and I've never really done OCC so Venice was a big challenge for me in terms of playstyle. Ultimately I learned that Venice actually plays well as an aggressor. Since you're probably going to want Colossus, you're already well on your way down the military tech path and that's a good thing because your crossbows and trebuchets help pick up puppets without having to wait for a MoV.
     
  11. SolDelta

    SolDelta Chieftain

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    Venice is incredible as a military powerhouse if you get enough puppets online. Rushbuying anywhere means you can reinforce your army as you conquer, right at the frontline.
     
  12. VisageTDI

    VisageTDI Warlord

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    Tech that gives you access to a Lux(ury) resource. Mining for Salt, Calendar for Incense etc.
     
  13. Gabriel Pyyrhic

    Gabriel Pyyrhic Warlord

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    This CANNOT happen on a CONTINENTAL MAP unless you are disabling START BIAS. Venice has an OCEAN start bias (which are placed first) and Venice is placed ahead of all other OCEAN civs.

    If you are disabling START BIAS then you are deliberately gimping any Civ that needs one.

    I would be interested to know the particulars of the game in which this happened ? Were you using a MOD, or altering the game in any other way ?
     
  14. Hippocrates

    Hippocrates Chieftain

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    Venice does well with a variety of play types and almost all victory conditions, especially on an archipelago map. My favorite is a combined Diplo-Science where I race to see which one I win first. You are pretty much forced to choose freedom though. I had to survive through one game where I was getting a -35 happiness from a revolutionary wave at <10 total happiness. With rushing Hubble, saving a GS from an earlier era, and faith buying 1-3 more GS, putting off Oxford and completing Rationalism, I know that as soon I as complete the Apollo Program I'm less than 6 turns away from victory and normally beat the first WL vote. They are now one of my favorite civs
     
  15. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    As in the example with Germany surrounding you, Venice is still viable, but you definitely need a coastal city, at least a puppet. Also note that even on Pangaea, Venice really, really benefits from petra and Colossus (4 extra trade routes!).

    Also, important thing: your puppets will focus gold, so no need to build great merchants in your capital. Puppets will eventually generate 1-2 great merchants.
     
  16. szieker

    szieker Chieftain

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    Hello everyone. Long time lurker, but this topic actually caused me to register. lol.

    Been playing a lot of BNW since it came out. Finally got around to trying Venice (they were the last new civ to try).

    I've actually had TWO games in a row as Venice, on Continents, where the only water i started on was an internal lake.

    The only settings I had changed from default were, quick combat and movement turned off, and time victory turned off. everything else is default.

    Needless to say, the game didn't go overly well, only have 2 sea based trade route options in the entire game kinda sucked.
     
  17. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure game doesn't discern inland seas from oceans. Your only fix would be to get a city state on the ocean and get all routes going from that city. Very inconvenient. And one more reason to get/make a "Canal" tile improvement.
     
  18. VisageTDI

    VisageTDI Warlord

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    Well, that's possible since the game doesn't differentiate big lakes that include Ocean tiles from real oceans. And it sucks, yea, but you can always trade from your puppets.

    Starting landlocked with start bias is impossible, since the game proritizes Venice start position before others.
     
  19. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Not impossible. I had this, but I usually move my settler, even if it takes 5 turns. Especially as Venice. I also try to stay off obviously southern and northern coasts (forests/tundra, as it's entirely possible that these seas are blocked off by ice.
     
  20. iggymnrr

    iggymnrr Deity

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    I just saw the AI attempt Venice on the Mesopotamia map. That's a bad map for it. With the new passive nature of the AI, the map is too big. The modern era, emperor level, is full of empty space. It is a microcosm of civ evolution. No longer does spearman beat tank. Now it is warrior beats semi. Venice had no chance. Worse, it was landlocked.
     

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