Wrong time for evangelism?

[Puck Nutty]

So I'm channel surfing this morning when I stumble across a man telling the story of how his near death experience caused him to become born-again.

Turns out, he was near death (I missed the part where he described what was wrong with him) and the paramedic told him that he wasn't sure if they could save him. He then asked the man if he knew Jesus and if he had accepted him as his saviour. The man said he hadn't, but he was willing to do so since he was likely near the end.

Long story short, he goes on to talk about how he didn't die (obviously) and how happy he now is to be living a Christian life. He also firmly believes that Jesus saved him when he accepted him into his heart.

So, if you were the paramedic's boss, how would you react to this situation? It seems to me that many medical professionals accept that a patient's mental state can affect their recovery. There isn't any solid scientific evidence to back this up, but it can't hurt to be optimistic, can it? If it were up to me, I'd take the paramedic aside and give them a stern finger wagging, but I wouldn't suspend or fire them, that seems harsh.

I'm sure the paramedic felt like they were doing a good thing, but the entire situation screams "now's not the time". On the other hand, if the man was likely to die, they won't get another chance to do what they sincerely felt was a good deed.

Thoughts?

 

[Arachnofiend]

The med's lucky that his man was open to the idea. If I was on my death bed and the last thing someone says to me is "have you heard the good news of our lord and savior Jesus Christ" I'd bite it right there from sheer exasperation.

I probably wouldn't fire the guy but I would tell him not to try that again. It's not malevolent in any way obviously, just... kind of naive? It's the expectation that everyone is going to be interested in what you have to say right now that you get with anyone who has distinctly strong convictions about something. It worked out here but it might not elsewhere.

 

[Puck Nutty]

Like I said, many medical professionals feel that a person's mental state can help in their recovery. If someone feels that accepting Jesus will help a patient recover, is it really any different than telling them something along the lines of "hang on buddy, we got you, you're gonna make it"?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Hmmmm. Nice puzzle. The paramedic ended up achieving what it is his job to try to achieve. Hard to reprimand someone for that. But one can't know that, for another patient, this one right on the verge of actually surviving the near death experience, the evangelizing might not have been distressing to a degree to be the thing that pushed him over the fine line toward death. So one can't endorse it as a general policy. So yeah, a finger wagging, with a wink and a nod to signal that I'm happy this guy regards him as having saved his life.

 

[timtofly]

It makes one wonder if there is a source of instinct to reach out and catch a human from falling off a cliff, that is both physical and spiritual?

Is there a simple "religion" that could address both in just a few seconds?

 

[JollyRoger]

That paramedic would motivate me to survive so I could persecute him.

 

[BvBPL]

So, if you were the paramedic's boss, how would you react to this situation? ... If it were up to me, I'd take the paramedic aside and give them a stern finger wagging, but I wouldn't suspend or fire them, that seems harsh.

You would give a guy in an ambulance who drives around trying to save people's lives a stern talking to for giving someone some words of comfort while saving that man's life?

You'd be the worst boss ever.

There is no way I want the paramedics attending me to be thinking in the back of their heads about whether or not their boss will be mad about religious comments they make to me. I want them saving my life. While they do that they can sing hallelujah or praises to Ganesh or try to sell me Tupperware providing they are doing the principal job they got into the that short bus with the flashing lights on top to do.

 

[Formaldehyde]

That paramedic would motivate me to survive so I could persecute him.

I was thinking more along the lines of suing him and his employer. There should definitely be separation of church and ambulance attendant. They are supposed to be medical professionals, not revival tent promoters.

 

[JollyRoger]

I don't want to spend my last moments of life listening to some Jesus freak.

 

[Paul in Saudi]

Who would tell an emergency patient "I'm not sure I can save you?"

As a first-aid freak, I cannot imagine having much time for this in most any situation. But, as a Christian I can understand the desire to preach the Good News.

There may or may not be a separation of church and state issue here. It is not clear in which country this incident allegedly happened. It is not clear if the medical guy was a public employee. If I am in a horrible traffic accident here, I fully expect prayers to be said by the local paramedics.

 

[Formaldehyde]

I'm sure that is quite reassuring to you personally, but isn't that exactly what they are supposedly doing by breaking into prayer instead of competently performing their supposed jobs?

And merely because Saudi Arabia is apparently even more backward than I imagined, does that mean it should be emulated elsewhere?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Twelve years ago I spent 5 weeks in the hospital. Yes, it was sometimes maddening how the volunteers came around and wanted to give me bibles and take me to prayer meetings, and kept asking if I wanted a pastor to come and visit. I remember going to one of the music sessions, and it was all religious music... gah!

But one of the volunteers was somebody who'd run for mayor a long time before, and I reminded him of when he'd come to my doorstep and we'd had a chat about city politics. He was surprised and pleased to be remembered (he's not the person who won the election, unfortunately), so we had a nice conversation. He toned down the religion after that.

 

[Puck Nutty]

You would give a guy in an ambulance who drives around trying to save people's lives a stern talking to for giving someone some words of comfort while saving that man's life?

You'd be the worst boss ever.

There is no way I want the paramedics attending me to be thinking in the back of their heads about whether or not their boss will be mad about religious comments they make to me. I want them saving my life. While they do that they can sing hallelujah or praises to Ganesh or try to sell me Tupperware providing they are doing the principal job they got into the that short bus with the flashing lights on top to do.

The problem wasn't in his desire to provide comfort, the problem was in his telling his patient that he might consider praying since he might be dead really soon.

I get that he thought he was helping, but I think under the circumstances I would rather a paramedic encourage someone to fight for life rather than prepare for the afterlife.

 

[Puck Nutty]

Who would tell an emergency patient "I'm not sure I can save you?"

As a first-aid freak, I cannot imagine having much time for this in most any situation. But, as a Christian I can understand the desire to preach the Good News.

There may or may not be a separation of church and state issue here. It is not clear in which country this incident allegedly happened. It is not clear if the medical guy was a public employee. If I am in a horrible traffic accident here, I fully expect prayers to be said by the local paramedics.

He was American. I forgot to mention that part.

 

[Berzerker]

I don't want to spend my last moments of life listening to some Jesus freak.

I would rather a paramedic encourage someone to fight for life rather than prepare for the afterlife.

medic might be ex-military, I figure last rites comes with the territory

Where's Mobby?

 

[BvBPL]

I was thinking more along the lines of suing him and his employer.

On what grounds? I'm curious why you think there's some liability for the paramedic or the employer.

The problem wasn't in his desire to provide comfort, the problem was in his telling his patient that he might consider praying since he might be dead really soon.

I get that he thought he was helping, but I think under the circumstances I would rather a paramedic encourage someone to fight for life rather than prepare for the afterlife.

I'm not sure I understand.

Are you offended that the paramedic may have lead the patient to believe that the patient's time was at an end or that the paramedic raised the issue of religion at all?

Would you be equally offended if the patient had some injury that was not life threatening, like a broken arm or something?

 

[Kyriakos]

It is quite accepted in most of the medical world that in some (eg when surgery is involved) cases the patient's state of mind does indeed have a significant effect on the outcome. This was argued since antiquity, and still is part of the working ethics of the medical profession.

Regarding this specific case, i am not sure how good an idea it was, but if it helped then i guess it was not that bad to have happened anyway. That said, i am not of the same view regarding the public parade of this supposed miracle given it will surely have an (in my view negative) effect on the person who is parading himself in this way.

 

[NovaKart]

If I were near death I think I would want to get right with God and wouldn't mind someone steering me in that direction but I can see how it would bother people who had other religions or were staunchly atheist.

 

[Synobun]

One could very easily argue that this man is only religious because the idea was thrown into his face in a time of vulnerability that, in most likelihood, he will never reach ever again because, you know, he was kind of dying.

The paramedic should not have said anything about religion. You can stroke your religious bible obsession in a church where it is promoted and encouraged, not in the final moments of a man's life of which you know nothing about and this guy could have been gang beat by a Mexican gang of folks named Jesus during his childhood. My point is, just because you're religious doesn't mean you should force someone's last few minutes to be about Jesus.

What about if the paramedic was a fanatical sports fan? What if as the man took his final breaths, the paramedic leaned down and said, "Have you switched your favourite team to the Leafs? They might win the Cup this year." Would that be okay? I mean, a patient's mental state is really important you know, and the paramedic was simply doing what he thought would help! Right?

No?

 

[Borachio]

When I'm dying I rather think the last thing that'll bother me is someone talking to me. Whether it's about religion, soccer, or the price of fish.

I don't put much store on recovery being influenced by one's state of mind either.

I mean, one can be determined to live and yet die; or one can be determined to die and yet live.

Though of course one can also be determined to live, or die; and live, or die.