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[WTP] Feedback, bugs and discussions about "river_merge" [CLOSED]

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - We The People' started by raystuttgart, Apr 26, 2021.

  1. ConjurerDragon

    ConjurerDragon Prince Supporter

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    Not every river that exists nowadays and allows boats to travel up has been a navigable waterway in history.
    e.g. nowadays you can ship up the St. Lawrence-River into the Great Lakes - because of 15 locks and canals that have been build.



    It is similar at the eastern seaboard of the US - in part the threat of U-Boats in the World Wars lead to the expansion of canals so that a lot of shipping can move "inland" instead of along the sea coast. A similar expansion of canals happened in the decade before railways became more than a toy for the amusement of passengers on short routes.

    However most of those canals were finished building long after the War of Independance, most in the 19th century, e.g.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesapeake_and_Ohio_Canal
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erie_Canal
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cape_Cod_Canal
    here the canal after it stopped being in use was filled and the land used to build the railway straight to a city without razing houses
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabash_and_Erie_Canal
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_City_Canal
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_Canal
    or as a larger plan
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intracoastal_Waterway

    All that did not exist in the game normal timeframe of 1492 - 1792 and was built later.

    The natural rivers that existed at the time of colonization were not all "navigable".
    like the Niagara Falls on the St. Lawrence riverway or the constant shifting shoals and sandbanks of the Missisippi
    we need to discriminate between rivers (too small to ship anything or ridden with currents, water falls etc.and that should not even be on the map),
    rivers (that allow for some transportation with small canoes that have flat hulls like the natives used) that should be on the map only as lines that give bonuses and
    rivers (large, that can be shipped by specialized boats, e. g. river barges or coastal ships with flat hulls).

    Not every river that exists and that some explorer rowed a canoe up needs to be a large river. That should be reserved for the largest of them.
     
    Kaskarn likes this.
  2. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Guys, simply check what I have done in the maps once this is published. :thumbsup:

    I tried to only add the some historically correct major water routes I had heard of.
    (Not all the possible water routes there might have been or that we have today.)

    Those are the only Large Rivers I usually tried to create in maps that contain North America and South America.
    (They may not be drawn perfectly on the map, but they should make a little sense immersively.


    Anything more will simply break the game concept of "Large Rivers".
    Too many of these "Large Rivers" will turn a nice and fun game concept into an annoying nightmare.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  3. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    And please guys:

    This is a work thread for the modders and supporters to organize todos and collect test feedback of the current internal release. :)
    Please do not make our work more difficult by turning this thread into a discussion thread.

    Anything that does not contribute to actual work in this thread really does not help us.
    For such things please create new threads and feel free to share your ideas.

    We really actually want to finish a release and give it to you guys.
    Thanks for your understanding. :thumbsup:
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
    Schmiddie likes this.
  4. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @inaiwae

    I reviewed, merged and tested your "City Plot Mouse Over".
    It is perfectly fine as it is. :thumbsup:

    It containts all information needed for Plot, Terrain, Terrain Feature, as well as Yields, Bonus Ressourse and Improvement.
    (And it even does so elegantly without distracting and confusing the player with too much details.)

    Thus of course it will be part of the next release and of course you will get according credits.
    (In changelog and in readme)

    Please consider contributing more of your ideas or directly working with us. :hug:
    We could really use more talented modders in our team.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
  5. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Ok guys,

    RaR Americas Gigantic (fixed variant - non-random) is now also fixed. :)

    1. Took care that it will spawn / generate the new Goodies for the new Goody Updates
    2. Fixed massive amounts of invalid Bonus / Terrain Combinations that had not been vaild anymore
    3. Added "Cactus" Bonus Ressources a couple of times
    4. Put Large Rivers into the map
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2021
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  6. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: :clap::clap::clap:

    Great! Love that map. I play all my games on this map!
     
    raystuttgart likes this.
  7. Fürstbischof

    Fürstbischof Chieftain

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    The German version of the mod uses in several places 3 different translations for UNIT_FERMENTATOR:

    TXT_KEY_UNIT_FERMENTATOR - Meister Fermentierer
    TXT_KEY_UNIT_FERMENTATOR_STRATEGY - Meister Kakao- und Kaffeehändler

    TXT_KEY_PROFESSION_COCOA_DRIER_STRATEGY - Meister Kakao- und Kaffeehändler
    TXT_KEY_PROFESSION_COFFEE_DRIER_STRATEGY - Meister Kaffeetrockner

    Meister Fermentierer is used by the engine. Which alternative do you prefer or should they be disregarded?
     
  8. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    We should have a closer look at that.

    Please note that one is for the unit and the other ones for the different professions! It would not be correct just to use one translation. If the English version only uses one this would not be correct...I have currently no time to look into the txt files but I assume the different versions are correct!
     
  9. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    @Fürstbischof

    The Expert (the Unit) should in German have "Meister". (In English: Expert / Master)
    But the Profession should not. (Becaus every Colonist Unit can take it, but not necessarily being an Expert.)

    For Comparison:
    • Profession "Rancher" / "Famer" / ...
    • Unit "Master Racher" / "Expert Farmer" / ...
    Suggestion:

    Simply use for Unit (Expert) this: Meister Fermentierer
    (It is shorter and does not sound so strangely "modern" and is too long.)

    Simply use for the Profession this: Fermentierer <--- Just no "Master"
    (Thus it matches the Expert and gets clearer for the Players.)

    Reasoning:

    "Meister Kakao- und Kaffeehändler" / "Kakao- und Kaffeehändler" sounds too modern and is too long.

    -----

    Thanks for noticing. :thumbsup:
    (The Professions using "Meister" is really a text bug.)

    -----

    Bye the way:

    It would be great if you could check if we messed up more Professions. :hug:
    They should not have a "Master" / "Expert" neither in English nor in German.
    (But it is possible that we made "Copy&Paste" errors.)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  10. Schmiddie

    Schmiddie Emperor

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    However, don't we need a different name for the two professions? Otherwise we could delete one profession, if they have the same name...
     
  11. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I noticed the postfix _STRATEGY. If I recall correctly, that is used for the colopedia only. It's not actually the name of the unit. The name is TXT_KEY_UNIT_(something) like the first one. The real question is where and how are the strings in question used?

    Having said that, adding "Meister" to a profession sounds wrong regardless of where the string is used because professions apply to all units, not just experts. Petty criminals can have that profession too.
     
  12. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Yes of course. :thumbsup:

    You are absolutely right.
    (I did not notice that it was Multiple Yields per Building Professions.)

    For coffee it should be in German: Kaffeetrockner
    Fof cocoa it should be in German: Kakaotrockner

    @Fürstbischof
    Please check the remarks of Schmiddie, they are of course important. :hug:
     
  13. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Of course not, but you will find the Unit Name and most likely also the Profession Name within the long Strategy texts.
    (They are most likely written in there several times.)

    In this case we talk about these types Strategy Texts:
    (There are others e.g. for Buildings, ... as well.)
    • Strategy Text for Unit
    • Strategy Text for Profession
    These Strategy Texts (of Units / Professions) normally simply contain both name references to Unit and Profession.
    (They have to explain how they are connected considering gameplay in the long texts.)
    • References to the Unit Name (Expert) --> Explaining its advantages for specific Professions
    • References to the Profession Names(s) --> Explaining which Yields it produces (in which Terrain / Building / ...)
    Absolutely simple. :)

    Pedia: Is historical Background Story ("Atmosphere") in Colopedia.
    Strategy: Is the gameplay explanation for the player ("How To") in Colopedia.

    They are all needed and all have a purpose.

    Trust me, that there is nothing wrong with the usage of these texts (and their XML references) in general.
    If "Pedia" and "Strategy" would have been totally messed up we would have noticed. :thumbsup:

    That is exactly what I said. :thumbsup:

    All that is needed now:
    • Checking the names of the Units (Experts) in Texts
    • Checking the names of Professions in Texts
    • If one of them does not match the scheme, doing a small correction.
    ------

    Summary:

    It is really absolutely simple and easy once you read the actual texts in Colopedia. :)

    @Fürstbischof should now know everthing he needs. :hug:
    (I will check all the changes made as well. :thumbsup:)
    • German Name of Expert for Coffee / Cocoa: Meister Fermentierer
    • German Name of Profession for Coffe: Kaffeetrockner
    • German Name of Profession for Cocoa: Kakaotrockner
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
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  14. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    Well ok, we had the upcoming release (internal branch "river_merge") tested by our team, supporters and other modders.:grouphug:
    Yes, we had bugs but most of them could be fixed or could be explained by strange test constellations ...

    The release preparation phase was again a bit stressy for the people working on it.
    But in the end it seems that it worked out and was worth it again ...

    We still may have a few improvements to do and a few small issues to fix but that is normal.
    No software and no mod is ever perfect ... :mischief:

    Typical Lifecycle of a Bug Report:
    :dubious::badcomp::wallbash::hmm::hammer2::help::dunno:...:thumbsup:
    • strange and hard to analyze bugs
    • tedious work that still had to be done
    • annoying discussion what should still be included or not
    • desperate hoping for the best to still be able to solve things
    • long explanations and clarifications of misunderstandings
    • chaotic taking care of old issue reports - that often were none
    • ...
    Special Thanks to @Nightinggale for the incredible effort to fix all the issues we found from merged branch 2.8.2.x :hug:
    But of course as well to the rest of the team: @Schmiddie, @Mr. ZorG and @devolution.:grouphug:
    Also many many thanks to all supporters like @Raubwuerger, @Kendon ,@Fürstbischof and @inaiwae :thanx:
    Without supporters like you guys, this mod would be much less, than what it is today.

    ------

    Summary:


    We should be able to release as planned this weekend.

    @team:
    I suggest to simply call the official release: Release 2.9
    I feel this release has really deserved to get a major release number.


    @community:

    This again seems to be the biggest and best release we ever had !!!
    (Well ok, I said the same thing probably every time we released ... :mischief:)

    ------

    After Release 2.9 we simply enter into normal development again.
    We will of course continue bugfixing and improvements but also try to create new game content again.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  15. Diegozubi

    Diegozubi Chieftain

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    excellent!!! :clap::clap::clap:
     
  16. Raubwuerger

    Raubwuerger Chieftain

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    Does the upcoming RC 2.9 have changes which are not savegame compatible. I'm currently playing yesterday's snapshot river_merge.
     
  17. Mr. ZorG

    Mr. ZorG Prince

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    Yes. make it a rule: a new update / release is a new game.
     
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  18. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    I'm a bit surprised to see this because I was convinced we agreed that when I proposed the very same thing just after creating the river_merge branch. At least we agree on this one.

    The plan is to be savegame compatible.

    Savegames did break when the "expert settler" was added. I had changed the savegame format to avoid breaking savegames, but apparently the exe is doing something. What the exe is doing is still unknown, hence unknown if I can figure out how to work around that. I won't even try to fix this for 2.9.

    Not breaking savegames would not only be good for the players, it would also make loading savegames from bug reports way easier. In fact we have had bug reports we couldn't really do anything about because we couldn't figure out which version was used to save it. I have since added a version string to savegames to get around that issue, but it would still be better if savegames doesn't break.
     
  19. raystuttgart

    raystuttgart Civ4Col Modder

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    I was not sure anymore what was just "discussed" and what was really "agreed". Thus I simply suggested to call it "Release 2.9". :dunno:
    (Some of the discussion was also about "officia release" or "test release" but I now feel we can make it and "official release".)

    Of course, but if the current release is not savegame compatible with old releases that can be fixed later. :thumbsup:
    It is no "show stopper" that should delay our release.

    Absolutely ok. :thumbsup:
    We can try to take care of it in a "patch release" or a future release.

    ----

    For now, yes please handle it just like in the past with the upcoming release.

    Start a new game, when you get a new version of the mod. (Otherwise you will probably have bugs.)
    If you take care of that, the game should be very stable.

    ----

    And before anybody asks:

    No we could not solve OOS issues in Multiplayer. :sad:
    @Nightinggale is the ony team member maybe able to try to take care of them but he was too busy with other issues until now.

    But Singleplayer should work perfectly fine. :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  20. Nightinggale

    Nightinggale Deity

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    If I had a good lead on what's wrong, then I would fix it before the release even if it means holding back the release for a week. However I'm still without any savegame/log, which provides a good hint. Whatever the bug is, I can for some reason not trigger it myself meaning I can't do anything without help from people, who experience it.

    We (well mainly me) work hard these days fixing bugs in singleplayer. If we are lucky one of those bugs is also responsible for the OOS issue. I find it unlikely, but not impossible. I did fix one OOS issue once, which turned out to also affect singleplayer, but it was so hard to spot for the player that nobody noticed.
     
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