alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
What if the Great Depression never happened? Would Hitler, Mussolini, and the japanese militants still have rose to power? And would WWII still be fought?
WW2: Okay, not really.....
- Thread starter alex994
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lord_yoshi
Making fun of you
alex994 said:
The Japs didn't have anything to do with GD. Besides, they invaded China in 1931 (that's why WWII-Pacific started back in 1931.)
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
well.....if the Great Depression hadn't occured, the Japanese Parliamentary government would still have been in place, the the militarants wouldn't have risen to power....And Pearl Harbor wouldn't have happened....
lord_yoshi
Making fun of you
No, the Japanese's Expansionist Policy started way back in ~1905 with the invasion of Russia (or around that time).
Evie
Pronounced like Eevee
1895, and it was the invasion of Korea and the subsequent war with China.
The war with Russia, starting in 1904, was more a direct result of Russia having fun trying to keep Japan from growing into a world power - forcing them to renounce the concession they had gained from the Chinesse in 1895 because Russia felt "her interests threatened". IIRC it had to do with Russia seizing for herself shortly afterward the land that the Sino-Japanesse treaty had awarded Japan (but which they had been forced to abandon after Russia threatened them around).
That said, I think the great depression being averted would have in turn prevented a Pacific War - not because of the way things would have been in Japan, but in the US. Specifically, I refer to the fact that FDR rode the depression on his way to power. Doubtless another president (somewhat likely a more isolationist Republican, for example) would have had a very different view on how to deal with Japanese agression (THAT is barring any conspiracy theory that Roosvelt let Pearl happen and goaded Japan into it to be able to join in the Euro fun).
That, plus without either a tripartite pact with nations waging war against America's "friends" (since Germany and Italy woudl have remained a bit quieter), and without the seizure of Indochinesse bases from France, many of the key grievance that got so many embargoes launched by the US would have been missing.
The war with Russia, starting in 1904, was more a direct result of Russia having fun trying to keep Japan from growing into a world power - forcing them to renounce the concession they had gained from the Chinesse in 1895 because Russia felt "her interests threatened". IIRC it had to do with Russia seizing for herself shortly afterward the land that the Sino-Japanesse treaty had awarded Japan (but which they had been forced to abandon after Russia threatened them around).
That said, I think the great depression being averted would have in turn prevented a Pacific War - not because of the way things would have been in Japan, but in the US. Specifically, I refer to the fact that FDR rode the depression on his way to power. Doubtless another president (somewhat likely a more isolationist Republican, for example) would have had a very different view on how to deal with Japanese agression (THAT is barring any conspiracy theory that Roosvelt let Pearl happen and goaded Japan into it to be able to join in the Euro fun).
That, plus without either a tripartite pact with nations waging war against America's "friends" (since Germany and Italy woudl have remained a bit quieter), and without the seizure of Indochinesse bases from France, many of the key grievance that got so many embargoes launched by the US would have been missing.
nonconformist
Miserable
Nope, because the Great Depression was one of the leading reasons for the appointment of Hitler.
Adler17
Prussian Feldmarschall
No. The German weimar republic would still have beein intact with a Great Coalition. Hitler were only a footnote in history as a symbol for an unquiete time and how many crazy people could becom MoP (=MdR, Mitglied des Reichstags).
Mussolini was in power but would have remained a small dictator. But Stalin? Perhaps he launched WW2...
Adler
Mussolini was in power but would have remained a small dictator. But Stalin? Perhaps he launched WW2...
Adler
HalfBadger
The Great Whackyness
nonconformist said:
Thats what I was thinking, of course WW2 could have still happend just differently and maybe for more military/expansionist reasons than religious.
BassDude726
It's Just a Phase
Hitler was only a footnote in history???!!!!
Wow, I must be reading different history books than you.
Wow, I must be reading different history books than you.
Ace
Emperor
Not likely! The Depression was hardly the main factor behind Hitler's rise to power. First and formost was Germany's defeat in WW1 and the miseralbe "peace" the allies imposed on Germany. Secondly, Germany was conditioned to a strong central government and the Weimar Republic was hopeless and most Germans longed for the "good old days". Third, the communists were making a strong push to take over the German government. Remember that Red revolutionaries led the mutiny of the High Seas Fleet. These are the main factors leading to Hitler's rise to power. In effect, the Depression was a footnote in his story.Zeekater said:Hitler would have been a footnote in history in the event that the wall street crash never occured, read the post/ thread before saying such 'flammy' things.
nonconformist
Miserable
Thuough there are a multitude of reasons for Hitler coming o power, the depression was a short term cause. If you look at the votes for extremist (communist and Fascist) parties from 1939 onwards, they increased tremendously. This was becasue Germany's economy depended on American money through the Daws Plan. One of Hitler's election posters showed a lot of seemingly hungry people with "Unsere Letze Hoffnung" "Our last hope" ritten on it.
NeoDemocrat
MOS MOS MOS
There would have never been the tragedy of the Holocaust, but I aslo think the state of Israel would have never come to exist 
Marla_Singer
United in diversity
Without the Great Depression, there would have been Mussolini (since he was there before), but certainly not Hitler.
Hitler have given hope back to people in despair. If those people weren't in a complete misery with no job and savings in a currency that was worth nothing, they wouldn't have been desesperate on the first place !
However, this being said, nationalism would have still been as strong all over the continent... and another shock between nationalists could have happened. If you notice well, you'll realize that today in Europe, nationalism is very badly seen. If that's the case, it's because we share a trauma from World War 2. A trauma that haven't reached other countries like China, the US or Mexico for instance. That wouldn't have been the case without Hitler.
That doesn't necessarily mean there would have been a war. Stalin wasn't ready to declare war in 1939 and they needed long years to be able to block the nazis. Maybe he could have declared a war later since it was one of the only way to hold the Soviet Union, maybe also several western countries like France, Spain, Italy or Germany could have turned communist. Everything could have happened actually. It's not as if only one path could have been taken then.
Hitler have given hope back to people in despair. If those people weren't in a complete misery with no job and savings in a currency that was worth nothing, they wouldn't have been desesperate on the first place !
However, this being said, nationalism would have still been as strong all over the continent... and another shock between nationalists could have happened. If you notice well, you'll realize that today in Europe, nationalism is very badly seen. If that's the case, it's because we share a trauma from World War 2. A trauma that haven't reached other countries like China, the US or Mexico for instance. That wouldn't have been the case without Hitler.
That doesn't necessarily mean there would have been a war. Stalin wasn't ready to declare war in 1939 and they needed long years to be able to block the nazis. Maybe he could have declared a war later since it was one of the only way to hold the Soviet Union, maybe also several western countries like France, Spain, Italy or Germany could have turned communist. Everything could have happened actually. It's not as if only one path could have been taken then.
Ace
Emperor
The Depression did not "insure" Hitler's rise to power, and the lack of it would certainly not have stopped him. At the most, the depression confirmed the impession of many Germans that Democracy and capitalism were weak and to be dispised.
Even if the world's economies had continued the upward spiral of the twenties, Hitler would still have gotten control of Germany, and events would have unfolded much like they actually did. Remember, Germany was already in deep economic trouble because of reparations that England and France demanded and the loss of the Ruhr area. I believe the only thing that could have prevented Hitler's rise to power would have been the lucky bullet or artillery shell in 1918!
Even if the world's economies had continued the upward spiral of the twenties, Hitler would still have gotten control of Germany, and events would have unfolded much like they actually did. Remember, Germany was already in deep economic trouble because of reparations that England and France demanded and the loss of the Ruhr area. I believe the only thing that could have prevented Hitler's rise to power would have been the lucky bullet or artillery shell in 1918!
Oruc
Reactionary
Nope!
Ace
Emperor
Well, yeah, and Germany could have won WW1 and the Kaiser would have precluded Hitler, too.
Archer 007
Rebirth
alex994 said:
Japan was a monarchy.
alex994
Hail Divine Emperor!
yeah, but the Emperor didn't have a lot of powesr.....
