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[WW2] Scenario 1939

Discussion in 'Civ4 - World War II 1939 Mod' started by kodzi, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. kodzi

    kodzi civ4_ww2:1939

    Joined:
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    Poland,EU
  2. makke

    makke Chieftain

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    Finland
    Istanbul is typed wrong as Stanbul :p Great mod guys, really nice. I post my suggestions soon in other thread. German soldiers should not have brown uniform by the way..

    And there are gold in North Finland and in current 1939 map theres no cities in finland O__o.
     
  3. arithegreat

    arithegreat world ruler

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    They are there for later use :)
     
  4. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    Hehe Finland has strong lobby on cfc - this nation will be added in patch 1.2b with Japan
     
  5. Ephack

    Ephack Chieftain

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    Cd Juárez, Chihuahua
    One question about this scenario: in the beginning, Russians beginn with a few nice battleships (strength 50), but they are unable to build them! I'm now quite far in the game, but I still can't. Does it represent something? Did Russians have a better navy in 1939 than in 1950?
     
  6. Jaysen

    Jaysen Chieftain

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    St.Andrews
    First of all this mod is genius! Im really impressed with your efforts guys.
    Here are some ideas/things that i noticed, some of them have been addressed before i think (while reading this keep in mind that I think that gameplay and fun should come before realism and historic accuracy although I dont sound like that ;) )

    -Strasburg has to be French at the beginning of the war. I think the Maginot-line is modelled on the map but it starts out in german hands. This defense line was the reason why Germany invaded the low countries in the first place and is an most important aspect of the war. Give it back to France.

    -The german standard infantry graphics bother me, we seriously need some grey german riflemen, that would add so much to the flavour.

    - There should be definitely less waffen-ss units. Those units where rare and just started to be real military units in late 39 after the attack on Poland.

    - The German Navy is way overpowered, there should be two Battleships at the beginning (maybe Bismarck+Tirpitz). Throw in some more U-boats instead. Especially in 39 the royal navy should seriously out-gun the Kriegsmarine. Maybe also add some naval transports?

    - Tanks are overpowered. Right now they are jsut like infantry but better. They should recieve some serious penalties for fighting in Forests and attacking cities. This is where the Inf should jump in. Maybe you could also add some "combined arms bonus" that is infantry AND tanks in the same spot recieve some bonus (maybe also a small defense bonus for artillery in the same stack while your at it?)

    - Germany is overpowered. Even when attacking Polish cities chances to win are over 90% all the time. It shouldnt be that a pushover (playing on monarch)

    - There are way too many tanks and armoured units. Would be much more realistic (and fun it think) if the bulk of the german army consisted of normal infantry and artillery). Maybe replace the sdkfz by Opel Blitz?

    - Maybe its just me but i think that units are too fast. I can move a tank from Strasburg to poznan in one turn. This makes tactical planning almost obsolete as you can always just rush units to where you need them.
    Same for Naval units, there is way too much "hit and run" going on ;)

    - Malta was one of the most important mediterranean military bases. From there the allies raided axis convoys supplying troops in north africa. Right now there is nothing on that island. Is it possible to add a self sufficient little town there with a naval and airforce base?

    - Production in some german cities is way too low. Please balance that a little more (40 turns for a theatre is a little too much).

    And now some questions: Whats up with that "Air-blockade" thing? what is that?
    And why do normal infantry units have artillery and bomber promotions?

    Btw i hope i played the most recent version of ur scenario otherwise forgett everything i just wrote.

    Anyways, great mod+scenario! This got a huge potential, keep up the good work!
     
  7. makke

    makke Chieftain

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    Umm there were like 950 000 Waffen SS troops overall and time before war 400-500 000, so i wouldnt say rare, but yes there should be a lot more normal troops than SS troops in scenario.

     
  8. Kyrion

    Kyrion Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2007
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    14
    Hi everyone! First of all - I LOVE this mod, especially the 1939 scenario to which I think I'm becoming addicted!!! :lol: I have some ideas however on how to further improve gameplay:

    - improve ai, it's a bit dumm even on the monarch on emperor diff. setting

    - add some more cities to vacant areas of the map (scandinavia, west africa, middle east, Caucasus mountains, Ural mountains)

    - remove the "found a new city" option and the settler from the game; the ai starts founding new cities like a maniac (Philadelphia in africa or Ottawa in Anatolia - wtf.?!;) and after all it isn't very historical

    - fill in the missing display texts and correct others (in the start screen where you choose the nation or building texts and such)

    - the USA are horrible underpowered in this scenario- give them more cities (like Reykyavik in Iceland or some other east-cosat cities)

    - when I click on a medic or ambulance build icon the game crashes (?!)

    - make the Volkshalle and Kremlin buildable and remove their ability to spread axis and comintern (same with the statue of liberty)

    - reduce the research times to make them more historical (i.e. it shouldn't take the whole WW2 to get to heavy tanks, when they were already available in 1942/43) and reduce the build times for city buildings
     
  9. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    Thank you :)
    i like the ideas and i'll fix this hovewer:

    volkshalle, kremlin, and statue are shrines for the ideologies - so they spread ideology and located in "holy" cities they give bonus :) - i rather would like to leave it this way

    about reducing cost - looking on 1933 and 1944 scenarios the cost of techs and buildings work better, i rather woulf give more infrastructure and improvments in 1939 mod - we will see that - i don't really like to mess up to scenarios :)
     
  10. vidimce

    vidimce Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2006
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    101
    Production, GDP (gross domestic product)
    Year 1939

    Austria 27
    France 199
    Germany 384
    Italy 151
    Japan 184
    Soviet Union 366
    UK 287
    USA 869
    Allied Total: 1600
    Axis Total: 746
    Allied/Axis GDP: 2.15

    relatively accurate information - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_production_during_World_War_II

    Should modify the countries so it resembles the above production.

    Germany was technologicaly advanced and had the most powerful and dominant tanks, armored vehicles, guns, etc. but had them in low numbers compared to America and Soviet union because they were complicated to produce and required lot of high quality material and deutch marks (the german currency in ww2). This is why production costs for German military should be increased. 20, 30 % ?

    The reason why the Soviet Union was able to build so many tanks and so fast is because they required less material, were less complicated to build and finaly the whip or gold. Production cost for Soviet military should be decreased. 20, 30 % ?

    The rest of the countris are inbetween.

    This would add much to the historical aspect. Germans were way overnumbered in the late tide of the war but managed to do lot of damage and hold on for so long because of their more powerful war machines, highly trained and disciplined army and superior tactics.
     
  11. DarthCycle

    DarthCycle WWII Freako

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    The initial order of battle for Germany is inacurate.

    - 2 battleships instead of 4
    - Add 1 or 2 Heinkell bomber unit
    - Add dive-bomber technology
    - Add 1 or 2 Ju87 Stucka unit
    - Add at least 2 regular (not mechanized) artillery unit
    - Reduce the amount of SS infantry and increase regular infantry
    - Relocate all navy units to native German territorial water, especially the subs currently in the mediteranean sea
     
  12. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    Thank you for finding this - it will help for sure to make new version of scenario more accurate :)
     
  13. DarthCycle

    DarthCycle WWII Freako

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    1939 Soviet Union

    Even though I understand (and approve) the idea of giving a slow start to the soviet union, their initial setup needs work

    - should have communism as their starting political civic, not fascism
    - perhaps communish civic should reduce maintenance cost for number of cities
    - there is a SU waffen ss in doniek
    - rostov is empty at start of scenario
    - SU infantry is all about quantity, not quality. I recommend you change most of the infantry I with full set of promotions to 2 or 3 infantry I with no promotion. The equipment and training of SU was lacking at that period
    - why do they have improved destroyer (strength 50) and no battleship?
    - too many naval units in black sea, not enough in baltic sea
    - too many tank unit

    The biggest problem of all is settler. Settlers should be disabled/removed for this scenario. I'm guessing that the idea of giving settlers to SU is to give them the opportunity to colonize the eastern part of the map, which is ressource rich. However, the AI will just build settlers like crazy in order to colonize all available land area. This will really cripple the SU economy where in fact it should focus on improving it with workers. Instead, build level 1 cities in the remote area but without any infrastructure around it, except for a single road to connect it to the trade network. With time and workers, these starting cities will become major production centers, which should produce the desired effect. Same situation with the south-eastern part which is oil rich.
     
  14. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    Thx for finding bugs and new ideas :)

    I agrree that tuning off setlers would be gould idea :)
    Also SU would be changed because it's hard to play with SU - the economy makes game unplayable
     
  15. LuKo

    LuKo The Royal Guard

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    "- too many naval units in black sea, not enough in baltic sea"

    I don't agree- Russia always had strong navy- Black Sea navy :)
     
  16. vidimce

    vidimce Chieftain

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    I agree with DarthCycle's suggestions and to add: The Soviet Union had 5.9 million soldiers at the start of the German offensive Barbarossa.
     
  17. DarthCycle

    DarthCycle WWII Freako

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    Luko is right in the sense that the Black Sea fleet was indeed strong however in the scenario, the balance between the Baltic and Black Sea is wrong.

    For instance the Baltic Fleet was composed of : 2 battleships, 2 cruisers, 2 flotilla leaders, 19 destroyers, 48 MTBs, 65 submarines and other ships, and 656 aircraft

    However the Black Sea Fleet is somewhat : 2 dreadnoughts, 8 cruisers, 3 flotilla leaders (?), ~12 destroyers, ~20 subs of various classes, and a bunch of misc support ships.

    In addition, I recommend this read on industrial output

    The concept of total war is interesting. Perhaps this could be modelized into a late civic for soviet union.

    Also, soviet union strategy was manpower intensive at the beginning (they had so much reserve in manpower) but more equipment focused as the war progressed and the low manpower reserve started to be felt.

    This phrase is key I think: "Germany's raw material production was higher than the Soviets' and her labour force was far greater, but the Soviets were more efficient at using what resources they had and chose to build low-cost, low-maintenance vehicles whilst the Germans built high-cost, high-maintenance vehicles"

    This in civ could be translated into: German units are costly but stronger, SU units are cheaper and but less powerful. This is currently not the case for tanks model (strength and cost) between these 2 countries.

    Also this phrase is also interesting: "Germany chose to build very expensive and very complicated vehicles and even though Germany produced many times more raw materials she could not compete with the Soviets on the quantity of military production (in 1943, the Soviet Union manufactured 24,089 tanks to Germany's 19,800). The Soviets incrementally upgraded existing designs, and simplified and refined manufacturing processes to increase production. Meanwhile, German industry was forced to engineer more advanced but complex designs such as the Panther tank, the King Tiger or the Elefant."

    This could be translated in : SU tanks can be upgraded while Germany's tank can't. An interesting advantage to give to the SU. As the war progesses, the SU can upgrade its tank force to more recent design which can turn the war for the SU while Germany has to build new tank from scratch.

    However, I would allow the older tank design like Panzer II and Panzer 38 (as an example) to be upgraded to tank destroyer (jagpanzer) and assault gun (mauser III) respectively. That's how these units were invented anyway: these older tank were combat inefficient against newer tank type so they reused the tank chassis and bolter a new superstructure (no turret and a bigger gun) for a new role.
     
  18. megamanx06

    megamanx06 Caswallan

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    Hitler's original followers were called the brownshirts :confused: (Mussolini's were called the blackshirts)
     
  19. asioasioasio

    asioasioasio Fallout Scrubber

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    It's because SA (Sturmabteilung) - paramilitary organization of the NSDAP weared brown shirts. In mod there's fascist activist - he looks like member of SA

    @ DarthCycle - i try to put your ideas to mod and scenario.
    About upgrades - i want to include the modcomp that allows to upgrade units by using hammers instead coins - the old unit would be scrapped (25% of hammers would be put for creating new one) and keep experience. Changing PzKpfw 2 to Maus would need hammers (if you want to make it fast you would need to have one of the civics that allows to buy things)
     
  20. DarthCycle

    DarthCycle WWII Freako

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    upgrade with hammer instead of coin : that's awesome and a much better design. Really looking forward to see this.

    What's the mod component name?
     

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