1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

WWII Europe: Small, Fast & Beautiful for IV - Discussion & Creation Diary

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by Paasky, Nov 3, 2005.

  1. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland

    NOTE: This IS 1.61 compatible, from v5.6.1 upwards

    From here on, the http://koti.mbnet.fi/pjvuorio/wwii_eu4current.rar will be playable. I just uploaded it, it's 900kb. Still missing are the buildings & improvements on the map, but its playable now!
    Download the No Swastikas add-on here, if you don't want swastikas, they'll be replaced by crosses:


    I repeat, any version larger than Pre-Beta 2.28.2 is playable!
    And any version larger than 3.14.1 has new python codes in.
    And any version larger than 3.21.1 has a working winter.


    Have fun ;)

    Instructions for install:
    1) Extract the WWII Europe folder into either of your mod folders (...\Civ4\Mods).
    2) Extract the contens of wwii_maps into either of your PublicMaps folder (...\Civ4\PublicMaps).
    3) Load the mod & open the wwii scenario.

    -----------------------------

    Hi it's me & my WWII scenario/mod again! Don't know it? Read on:

    Short Story: Once upon a time I was searching for a WWII Europe scenario for Civ3: Conquests. I downloaded 3 or 4 different ones, only to find that a) they didn't work, b) they didn't have any rule changes, or c) the maps were too huge to be playable. So I made my own, which was much lighter and much more playable (after v2.0 that is :mischief: ). The largest innovations were the Trade Resources & Eraless Tech Tree. I'm going to think up a few ideas as new as those, one of which is underneath.
    Long Story Here

    Development Stage: XML/Map Creation/XML
    Progress:
    Code:
    /     ,    ,    ,    ,    ,    ,    ,    ,    ,    ,   \
    |  ¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤¤------------  |
    \    10%  20%  30%  40%  50%  60%  70%  80%  90%  100% /
    
    Alltogether: 75%

    Map: 90% (Humangeous thatnks to NKVD for placeing most of the stuff)
    Generic Units: 100%
    Nation-specific Units: 70%
    Scripts: 80%
    Buildings: 90%
    Civs: 70%
    Texts: 10%
    Promotions: 90% (either python or SDK required for more work to be done)
    Largest Question ATM: What will the victory type for neutrals be like?

    I still haven't decided the name, will it be SF&B 2 or SF&B IV?

    If you have a program called FreeMind (excellent mind-map program), you can view my current ideas here:
    http://koti.mbnet.fi/peksoft/wwii.mm (the number inside ()'s is the strength)
    Here is the same file in .html. Just a long list compared to the clear mind-map I've done. I suggest every modder gets FreeMind, as it makes things a LOT easier to plan. <Ins> to add a new link, <F2> to edit, <L-Click> to open/close a node.

    If you have an idea, please share it! This is not a closed discussion, nor is it a closed team. I guarantee that all ideas, however odd (except a "Hey, let's make the British & Germans in a locked Peace!" perhaps :p) will be looked at and considered. Also, any sort of help, be it 3d models, 3d graphics, 2d graphics, historical info, etc, is useful!

    URGENT!
    If someone would like to either teach me or help me do the texturing for my 3d-models, please contact me ASAP.
     
  2. wotan321

    wotan321 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    NC, USA
    Yours was a scenario I played and modded and played many times. I would really enjoy seeing it in Civ4. There were certainly LARGER and more ambitious WW2 scenarios, but I didn't find one better for play and enjoyment.

    With the addition of events and triggers and such... this could be quite the scenario. Alternative histories and all sorts of fun stuff could truely be implemented.

    The first question I have about modding is... can we simulate seasons in this game? Could we change terrain back and forth to simulate Russian winter? Could we allow relations to change so that you aren't stuck with permanent war like in Civ3? Could random events and triggers prompt an alternative ending to it?

    Good luck with this, it would be a fantastic mod.
     
  3. wotan321

    wotan321 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    NC, USA
    Can the software store variables, where we can add to and subtract from? You could have each oil well add to an 'Oil reserve' and subtract from that number according to turnsxunits. Then when that number reached 0, you could have each particular unit type have a movement of 0, or something like that.

    I have not read over the Python events and triggers... so I am just speculating, but that is one way to acheive the oil needs issue.

    Critiques?
     
  4. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    It stores the Gold, so why not Oil, Food & Ammunition reserves aswell? A "If OilReserve =< 0 Then Do FreezeAllOilUnits" perhaps? And add: "If AmmoReserve =< 0 Then Do StopAllFighting" and of course "If FoodReserve =< 0 Then Do KillAllUnits :satan:" OK, maybe the last two are not options... But FreezeProduction & maybe FreezeAllOilUnits should happen. The thing with that is that I don't want to make it too complicated. KISS my friends...

    Think about how it would make the battle for the skies as, or more, important as the battle for territory :eek:

    EDIT: Noticed the questions on the first post:
    If you get FreeMind, you can see how I've added a node for terrain with a questionmark ;) Same thing with Religion, I'm not sure how to do that. Definately not with Taoism though :lol:
    Also, with the updated .mm & .html, find a spot named civs ;)
    I've played the American Revolution through two times now (as Brit & US, won it in 20t (normal, noble) & 30t (epic, noble)) And it has a few nice triggers & scripts. I'm starting the Desert War now, to see what it has to offer.

    How should synth. be written? Synthetisized?
    NOTICE: Largest Question ATM: What will the victory type for neutrals be like?
     
  5. wotan321

    wotan321 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    NC, USA
    Do you know if you can create variables?
     
  6. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    Hopefully :p
    If not, I'm sure there's a workaround, perhaps insert the value in some other thing, like a hidden button. That's how I did it in a visual basic project recently.
     
  7. Infinit1

    Infinit1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Illinois
    I was thinking of a WWII scenario for Civ4 (and asked for a Europe Map). I didn't play any cool WWII scenarios in Civ3 so it sounds good.
    I was thinking of making one like that in Civ2, but improvements are exceptable. ;) Good luck!
     
  8. 69king

    69king Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    69
    I remember this old WW2 shareware game that I downloaded from a BBS many years ago. It may give you a few ideas.

    Ok, I'll go look for it.

    [2 hours later]

    I finally found it for download http://files.chatnfiles.com/Nightowl%2017/024A/WW2107.ZIP

    Umm, after playing it again I don;t know if it will help at all but it is an interesting fun little ww2 strategy game.
     
  9. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    :lol:

    I'm working on the unit upgrade paths, hopefully I can make the Pz II upgrade into either the Wespe or a better Pz II. Don't the first units stay buildable in normal games? As I can remember being able to build both archers & longbowmen. Although the warrior does go unavailable... I'll look into that. It might make some interesting paths if possible :D
     
  10. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    I updated the two mindmaps again. Added the main special units, it's in the bottom of the html file.

    How should synth. be written? Synthetisized?
    NOTICE: Largest Question ATM: What will the victory type for neutrals be like?
     
  11. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    Map size

    I started to make the map, the one I now have is 104x64. And before you start moaning about how small that is, a little fact about civ maps:
    In civ1-3, every plot was a diamond. Due to that, the real map size was [(width*height) divided by 2]. Now, as the plots are squares, the size is simply height*width. So, with a bit of calculator usage: Old WWII map: (100*100) / 2 = 5000 plots. New WWII map: 104*64 = 6656.
    :eek: The map is over 1600 plots larger! That's a 30% addition!

    The next thing:
    Old WWII map: 100x100 which was stretched while making & by civ = not good, inaccurate.
    New WWII map: Screenshotted from Google Earth & resized into 104x64 without any stretching = good, accurate.

    That does mean that there is a lot more of ocean though. Compare:

    As you can see, the landmasses are about the same, but the new one has more ocean & looks a lot more like Europe.
     
  12. Feet

    Feet Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2005
    Messages:
    143
    Location:
    Southend, UK
    I have created a map that is 63 tiles x 125 tiles (flat map, like yours). That is well outside the scale you describe and it works fine, loads quite quickly too.
     
  13. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    PC specs being?

    decided to keep the size anyway, as I've done the 3 different layers already ;)
     
  14. Infinit1

    Infinit1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2005
    Messages:
    37
    Location:
    Illinois
    Feet, can you please post that map for download?
     
  15. wotan321

    wotan321 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    1,218
    Location:
    NC, USA
    To answer my own question from earlier, YES, it appears you can create your own variables in the Python scripts.

    Hmmm.......that opens up lots of possibilities....
     
  16. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    I doubt anyone could dare call a game "most moddable ever" if it didn't allow new variables in a programming language...
     
  17. NP300

    NP300 Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 18, 2004
    Messages:
    402
    Location:
    North America
    Paasky, it's your mod so it's up to you to do what you like. I just have a few suggestions. I think that a WWII Europe scenario ought to include Iraq, Iran and Northwestern India.

    Iraq was independent and friendly towards the Axis until England invaded them in 1941. Likewise, Iran was friendly towards the Axis until invaded in 1942 by Russia and Britain. So I think that if history had turned out differently (and this is the point of a scenario), Iraq, Iran and India may have been battlefields.

    Consider one possibility:

    Axis forces are victorious in Egypt in 1941, or perhaps earlier in 1940. Then they roll into Palestine. Now they are linked up with Iraq/Iran by land. If England/Russia had tried to invade Iran or Iraq these countries would have joined the Axis and there would have been fighting there. With Iran in the Axis, the Axis may have attacked India or Soviet Central Asia.

    Likewise, from an allied perspective, it may be necessary to invade the Iraqi and Iranian neutrals to seize the oil and stop them from possibly joining the Axis.

    A victory condition for the neutrals may be to simply survive as a neutral without declaring war on anyone. There was a lot of pressure from the Axis and Allies for neutrals to joint their side. Germany tried to persuade Spain, Vichy France and Turkey to join the Axis. Likewise, the Allies put a lot of pressure on many countries, like Greece and Yugoslavia, to join their side. In fact, Yugoslavia had joined the Axis, but then an Allied-sponsored coup overthrew the government, which then withdrew from the Axis(which led to the German invasion). Likewise, neutrals that got in the way, like, Holland, Norway, or Yugoslavia got invaded by the Axis. The Allies in turn, invaded neutral Iraq, Vichy France (British and American attacks on such), Norway (Churchill invaded Norway when it was neutral) and Iran when they got in their way.

    A neutral could be considered defeated the moment it joins either side.
     
  18. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    Good ideas there, I could move the map further east, as there's nothing except water in the west.

    I thought Persia (Iran & Iraq) were a part of the British Empire. And the British used "Air Police" to control the vast deserts there in the 20's-30's (If a village disobeyed the crown, a notice was air-dropped so that civilians could leave, and a few days later it was bombed/strafed. The only glitch was that no-one could read...). I read it from a "History of the RAF" book that I have, but I could've read wrong and it was only talking about African colonies.
     
  19. Red Door

    Red Door Man of Mayhem

    Joined:
    May 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,665
    Location:
    USA #1
    You should do that because theres a lot of empty ocean not worth fighting for out there. Then you could put more of Russia in which would make game better. By the way, I liked the one for Civ3.
     
  20. Paasky

    Paasky Good News Everyone!

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,062
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    If there were a lot of Lend-Lease traffic going on (which there will, believe me), it won't be as useless. I'll start researching on the subject (wikipedia, here I come!)
     

Share This Page