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WWII Polish Rifleman

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Unit Graphics' started by W.i.n.t.e.r, Jan 20, 2005.

  1. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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    WWII Polish Rifleman (Entente) v.1.0
    =>
    get it here, at my units section (post 4)

    NOTE: This Unit has been *Updated* to version 1.1 !!!

    Note: World War II began "offically" on September 1st, 1939, when German forces burst across the frontier into Polish territory. In less than 1 month the lighting campaign against Poland was over, and the world was once again at war. Hereby, I am putting an end to WWII scenario makers disregarding with which country WWII actualy began, one which fought bravely yet in vain.
     
  2. Snorken

    Snorken Chieftain

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    Looks good! :) By the beginning of WWII Poland had 39 infantry divisions, so it's about time they got their own unit...
     
  3. Fox Mccloud

    Fox Mccloud Chieftain

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    Why is it that when I downloaded it, there is no Civpedia pictures, or Icon pictures available. :hmm: lookes a lot like the British infantry.
     
  4. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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    Jesus, are you sure there aren't either Civilopedia pics or icons in the download?... hmmm beats me, must have slipped my mind when I was uploading them... or... wait- that's it- now I remember: I didn't make any at all, nor were any made for any other of my 22 WWII infantry units... call me lazy but after spending a few days making the latest 3 units, in between 3 family birthdays, a trip to the Austrian Alps and my father's trip to Mexico I felt like doing it like Firaxis and not making any, sorry. :p



    And yes, well spotted, this unit bares a certain resemblance with the British Infantry (actualy its the British Rifleman in a completely different colour and with a brand new helmet). Btw. if you check pictures of Polish troops in WWII you will realise they would indeed appear in British uniforms as part of the Allied forces. Call me a history cracker but I like it when a unit looks somewhat like the original... :mischief:
     
  5. Wyrmshadow

    Wyrmshadow Chieftain

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    Polish gold reserves that were transfered to Canada before/during the September Campaign were used to buy British equipment for use by Polish forces that fought in Africa and Italy.
     
  6. Fox Mccloud

    Fox Mccloud Chieftain

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    Whoa, I didn't know you were that busy, So I won't call you lazy.
     
  7. andy_p

    andy_p Chieftain

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    hey, im studying history here in England and something i didnt know was that in 1938 the Poles demanded concessions from both Hitler and Stalin over the incidents in Czechoslovakia and Estonia respectively. I couldnt believe it that here is a nation surrounded by the two natiest dictators of the 20th Century and they had the gall to demand terratorial compensation for Poland, youve got to respect that, misguided but shows a lot of courage. Oh and another thing, did you know that it is theorised that had Hitler not been given the Sudetenland in 1938 (this an area of imense defence on the border between Germany and what is now the Czech Republic) the Czech army could have held back the entire third reich from the invasion of the rest of czechoslovakia and generally given Hitler a bloody nose, not really relevant to Poland, but i thought it was highly interesting.
     
  8. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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    The Polish believed in what the French had promised them: That they would have powerful Allies by their sides (read: in the enemy's back) in the event of a war with (at least) Germany- and Russia was deemed unprepared for a war with Poland. Even by September of 1939 the German assault caught the Polish Government widely unprepared; an attack by Germany was not expected until several years later, as conclusions drawn from Polish intelligence were such that the mechanization of the Reichswehr had not reached a satisfactory level for such an attack. Calling it courage might be arguable, yet not very convincing given the unpreparedness by sides of the Mościcki regime. But yes, they were quite "active", them Polish- after all, they had achieved resounding victories over the hated Russians which made them confident of their military capabilities in defending their newly found national identity- before his death Pilsudski had even fantacised about taking Berlin, should Germany ever attempt to take posession of the Danzig corridor.

    The Czech Republic could never have withstood an attack by the German Army- especialy given the geo-political situation of being virtualy surrounded by enemies (not merely Germany, yet also Poland) and being itself a very young, and instabile union of different peoples with separatist tendencies. France had intended to secure its own position by forming the Petit Entente between Czechoslovakia, Romania and Yugoslavia, yet French diplomacy showed the French themselves unwilling to value this agreement when not directly threatening French security. Czechoslovakia was alone and would have proven unable to defend the strategicaly important Sudetenland on its own, if attacked....
     
  9. Wyrmshadow

    Wyrmshadow Chieftain

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    Funny thing about defences. They work best when they are infront of your enemy, not BEHIND him.
     
  10. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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  11. Smoking mirror

    Smoking mirror Ships Captain

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    Actualy the defences in the Sudetenland were very good, and the czechs had tanks at least as good as the germans at that time (read; better than the french or british). Yes Czechoslovakia was a young country in its curent form, but that doesn't mean that they didn't have any national solidarity, Germany and poland were also relativly young nations (from a european point of view) and even italy had only achieved unification in the previous century, but you wouldn't dispute the Italians, Germans or Poles sense of national culture, pride and willingness to sacrifice themselves for thier country.

    I don't want to turn this thread in to a historical discussion, just to say that it is my considered opinion that things would have turned out very differently if the Sudetenland had not been conceeded. After the loss of this key defensive feature all the nations between the balkans and the baltic began to fall apart, and the grand alliances that had been proposed in the 1930s evaporated. For those eastern european nations that had not yet become dictatorships this one event managed to erode all native opposition.

    I'm not saying that things would have been better, europe learned some hard lessons in WWII which have helped to create a very stable region, with very fair and humane policies, in fact if WWII had happened latter, with more effective planes and tanks, and the advent of atomic bombs halfway through rather than at the end of the war it could have been a lot worse.

    The funny thing about history is that you can never predict what would have happened under different circumstances. That is one of the things that makes CIV III so fun, it helps you to see the mechanism's at work and see how just one small change in circumstances can have masivley far reaching effects.

    The unit looks good by the way Winter. :)
     
  12. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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    Yes and no. All those which you mentioned rightfully did "achieve unification (etc)" - yet they did achieve it on their own- not by artificial diplomatic reasoning. The Germans fought numerous wars amongst themselves and against other enemies, the Italians unified through civil war. Poland used to be a State before and comprised the Polish Nation within its borders- especialy the Polish had (and have) a strong National Identity. I am not saying this need not apply to other Central- and Eastern Europeans, yet history has proven that for me already: These "newest" European states were artificial products of the same post-WWI peace-diplomacy resentiments that would eventualy lead to the second world war. Especialy the splitting of the Ottoman Empire and Austria created a number of states that were hurridly thrown into their existence. On one side, Romania and Bulgaria were mostly nation states (i.e. ethnic Romanians within the borders of their own souvereign State). Chekoslovakia on the other side was an entirely unfit structure, in that respect- and never supposed to withstand German revisionism, but that of Austria (in 1918 acribic care was taken to create a state similar in size and population like neighbouring Austria), Hungary (Hungarian minorities) and Poland. If one looks at the ammount of the minorities its population comprised, it becomes evident Chekoslovakia was more a hotchpotch of leftovers rather than a proper nation state. :)

    Actualy the Treaty system had already begun to fail as early as 1936 (see Spanish Civil War), when the European nation states were drifting further and further apart diplomaticaly and putting focus on their own national interests before their treaty members. So by the time we reach the "German question" around Chekoslovakia (here, already the Versailles Treaty combined these two peoples without real interest in either of those peoples' wants and needs when it came to make sure to split up Austria and counter Hungarian revisionism) it must be noted that all those indeed not only proposed, yet active treaties were in reality not much more than hollow air.

    I don't quite understand thi point :( or which nation/state you are thinking of.

    Couldn't agree more :king:

    Thank you :):):)
     
  13. Smoking mirror

    Smoking mirror Ships Captain

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    Well, being part irish, part scottish, part hugenot (french protestant), part jewish czech/polish heritage I have to say I don't put much faith in the ethnic makeup of a nation state. England is just as much of a hotchpotch of leftovers :) as many of the balkan states, and it has never effected our patriotic fervor.
     
  14. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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    Well, first of all: You are talking about Britain (not England, for you are "British" if you are such an ethnic mixture :)). Every Englishman is British, not all British are English. LoL

    And you are confusing the term "nation" state. England is a nation state for it is the state of the English Nation (same would go for Scottland, etc). Britian, however comprises Irish, Scotts, Welsh and English. It is a state, yet not a nation. A nation state comprises its own ethnic/cultural/historical nation.

    Afaik, the Irish nation split from the Motherland in 1916 in a violent civil war that has not fully ceased even today! Interestingly enough that was during WWI. So yes, you have national fervor that creates a nation state- yet the Irish one :lol:

    The Scottish hate the English just the same and would leave the UK if they could (yet they are not numerous enough, not economicaly strong enough - etc). Besides, the Scotts have their own national fervor and fight as Scotts, rarely as "British" and never as English. They have their own regiments which fight as an ethnic and national (scottish) unit. Never asked yourself why England had to cede power to the autonomies? This is merely to take pressure of the hotchpotch so as to avoid a straining of relations with the long conquered Scotts.

    Regarding other nationalities within Britain, I doubt this hotchpotch has been existing for a long period, as migratory tendencies onto the Isles (i.e. from former colonies) have only begun within the last decades, a period Britain hasn't suffered any external or internal crises and remains to prove itself.

    Similarly there were no "hotchpots" before the end of colonialism- people kept to themselves (and still tend to do that nowadays: see Ghettoisation, etc). The best modern example of how an artificialy amalgameted multi-ethnic state fall apart can be seen in the case of Yugoslavia or the Soviet Union, were social, ethnical, economic frictions and external pressure have lead to the abolition of such artifial entities (do you still not believe that such things don't matter). A counter example would be the German Unification where that States of the same nation are merged.

    The creation of Czechoslovakia was more than clumsily made, the ethnical factor (amongst that of unparralelled economic friction (black friday), unsurpassable cultural differenciations (Slovaks didn't mix with Czechs and vice versa) and extreme external and geo-political pressure!) being the key point leading to its demise as a souvereign entity.
     
  15. andy_p

    andy_p Chieftain

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    hmm, i think ive opened a Pandoras Box here, i cant remember who said it but here is a quote -
    "History is always written wrong, and so must constantly be rewritten"
    As im English myself, i agree with you Winter with the idea that Britain isnt really United, which leads interesting ideas for where the EU is going and how it will work.
    I still think the Czechs could have held the Germans back, at least for a long time, assuming that the Poles fought with them to the North, and Britain and France in the West, Germany may have found life a little bit harder. As for Poland, i still think it was a courage to demand territories of them, even if it was horrific intelligence, or maybe it was just arrogance i dont know. And whilst im here, Winter, can i possibly use your Australian Unit and modify it?
     
  16. Smoking mirror

    Smoking mirror Ships Captain

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    Ok, this will be the last post I do on this particular subject (though its not realy the same topic I started with :) ) but feel free to post your response.

    Everyone has thier own interpretataion of history, based on thier own subjective world view. The problem of the last 100 years is that people have been under the illusion that you can have an "objective" view of history. It's not going to happen, and to belive that it is possible is to ignore the underlying subjective nature of every person's worldview (especialy in our postmodern world). I value your subjective view, and it is interesting how it relates to mine, in someways corelating, in others totaly irreconcilable. That is what makes history and political, social and personal analisis so intersting.

    That said, I meant to say Britain, not England. :) My Grandfather, uncle and Great Uncle all served in the scots guards. My Uncle even performed a tour of Ireland during the 1980s and witnessed the troubles at thier worst.
    The Conflict in Ireland was once based on Religion, and on the fact that we spoke different languages, and that the english had occupied a soverign country. (This will allways lead to this sort of conflict and rejection, as we have seen in Iraq). Today the conflict in Ireland is not based on that at all. It is, like the fight for the basque country, or the conflict in the middle east or the balkans, based on a history of conflict. This sort of conflict breeds resentment and hatred on both sides, it is a war that is self perpetuating. Hopefully, we will have a cease fire in Ireland long enough for a generation to grow up who know nothing of the troubles, only from history passed down from thier parents. That is the only way to find peace, both here and in the other trouble spots in the world.

    Britain has always been a hotchpotch; In the early centuries there were settlers from the Baltic, who settled here and in the Basque country in spain, then there were celts, and the romans, then the vikings, anglosaxons (in fact only a small minority in our history), the normans (yet more vikings!), Jews and protestants fleeing from the continent (the jews were expeled by longshanks, but later readmitted), and from the age of sail onwards thousands of minorities arived by boat along with thier cargo's. They found a country that although seemingly ruled by an anglo saxon(ish) elite was actualy comprised of dozens of minorities.

    In this way, Eastern europe is a little like britain, it is a land that has suffered thousands of influxes of "barbarians" from the east, dozens of conqerings by "civilizised nations" to the west, and now has little in common in any one area other than language and religion.
    It's up to you whether you belive that the slavs and the czechs could have laid thier differnces aside and fought together against the mutual enemy, the fact is that they would always have had problems with enthnic germans in the Sudetenland, and would not have survived long as a single nation. But I think they could have held out long enough to give the germans a bloody nose (baring bad weather, or acts of god) had they been given suport from other nations.

    In summary;
    War for the conquest of other peoples; Bad
    War for the defence of your own or other peoples from conquest; Good.

    I hope we can all agree, at least partly, on that.
     
  17. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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    @ andy_p: Sure thing- delighted if you do :)

    @ certainly- and not merely subjectively (although somebody else might disagree ;))
     
  18. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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  19. Pawel

    Pawel Daimyo

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    Taking the risk of being a little boring, I just wanted to point out that I downloaded version 1.1, and liked it a lot. However, there are four flics which do not seem to be complete in the sense that all eight directions contain the same amination.

    Fortify, fidget, and victory are SW, while death is just facing south...
     
  20. W.i.n.t.e.r

    W.i.n.t.e.r Frozen!

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    Taking the risk of being a little negative, but I considered one direction enough for Victory, Death, as well as the Fortify animation (the former two take a split second within the game and aren't really important- really unimportant into how many directions one falls when giving up ones' ghost or cheering about, and fortify used to be one direction with several foot units in the pre-PTW release anyways). Fidget, and here I'm certainly risking being seen in the light of lush laziness, I really couldn't be bothered to continue, adding helmet by helmet, frame by frame, in 8 different directions... :blush: it just too tedious to repeat the same flip of the wrist time after time- especialy if once you're done you realize in some frame between the 3 and 6 animation something is one pixel too far to the right- and you spend another 10 minutes to sort that one out- and I still got some 30 units to go according to my list...

    The ones that are seen throughout the useful busines life of your unit have bee done according to completeness: Default (about 70% of the entire time we'll see this one), Run (11%), and Attack (another 11%) totaling about 92%.

    Sorry but in the light of Death, Victory and Fidget taking 1% each of displayed animation time and with Fortify being some 5% (most units will be fortified in cities or on top of a stack in a rortified position) I am not likely to change it!

    There is still a vacancy in my team though, I'd even provide the necessary software, tutorials and start-up assistance ;)
     

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