Xenodrome is OP

[gamemaster3000]

750 hammers for four culture/turn is too good to pass up--what builds do you use to rush it?

 

[Qbix]

If I actually have the luxury to think about getting wonders then I am usually far ahead enough to get it anyway, no matter what else I research. I have the feeling the different AI sponsors go for different wonders, yet I am sure I could get 90% of them in a good game without problems. And without rushing.

 

[Manannan]

Well, it's more like 750 hammers + 3 geothermal for 8 culture + 1 xenomass (debatable mind you) with the free xeno sanctuary, but yea. Gosh darn wonders in BE can be pretty bad.

 

[m15a]

And if you are playing PAC, the cost is just about double that of the xenosanctuary. What's the big deal?

 

[bhavv]

Mmm, PAC + Labor Logistics + crawler.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

it only takes 188 turns to give a positive return on investment

 

[m15a]

it only takes 188 turns to give a positive return on investment

Can you explain that? I thought that the production to culture exchange rate is 4 to 1, which means 24 turns to give a positive return. Is that wrong?

 

[gamemaster3000]

I think my facetiousness has gone unnoticed. I think the Xenodrome is the most underpowered wonder of not just this game but pretty much all Civs.

 

[Svetkavitsa]

Your facetiousness may have gone unnoticed because it's actually one of the more useful wonders... as sad as that is to say.

 

[m15a]

Nope, not unnoticed. It may be weaker or more situational than it should be, but it's not as bad as you describe it and not really so worthy of being singled out that it warrants its own thread.

 

[Magma_Dragoon]

Can you explain that? I thought that the production to culture exchange rate is 4 to 1, which means 24 turns to give a positive return. Is that wrong?

We're both wrong.
750 production * 0.25 culture/production = 187.5 culture from building culture instead of wonder
187.5 culture / 4 cpt = 46.875 turns for wonder to out produce building culture

 

[m15a]

We're both wrong.
750 production * 0.25 culture/production = 187.5 culture from building culture instead of wonder
187.5 culture / 4 cpt = 46.875 turns for wonder to out produce building culture

Yeah, but the Xenodrome give a xeno sanctuary, which is another 4 culture per turn.

Actually, the building quest option comes into play, too, so it could be an even better deal.

 

[Lord Tirian]

Yeah, but the Xenodrome give a xeno sanctuary, which is another 4 culture per turn.

Also, it saves you the 1 xenomass you usually need to get it (and, of course, the xeno sanctuary counts towards the transcendence victory).

Really, all in all, the Xenodrome is niche but not that terrible. Like all wonders, it could do with a little bit more pizzazz but it's far from being the worst offender in the list of terrible wonders.

 

[gamemaster3000]

How is this a good wonder at all? 1 xenomass is not that big a deal, and why risk someone or the AI snagging the wonder when you could just build the xeno sanctuary instead?

And 4 culture/turn is uber terrible, hell artists give you 3 in every city just for it existing.

 

[Xenotitan]

Yeah, the knowledge path upgrade is more powerful than the culture on this thing. But if you do successfully build it I guess you get to subtract the hammer and xenomass cost of a xeno-sanctuary, which you'd definitely want to build if you're going for a harmony victory. Still doesn't feel worth it unless you've run out of things to build and you've got the +7 culture to wonders.

 

[sprang]

Yeah, the knowledge path upgrade is more powerful than the culture on this thing. But if you do successfully build it I guess you get to subtract the hammer and xenomass cost of a xeno-sanctuary, which you'd definitely want to build if you're going for a harmony victory. Still doesn't feel worth it unless you've run out of things to build and you've got the +7 culture to wonders.

Yes, the knowledge Virtue +7 is great, but that's much later in the game. I mean, that's a possible strategy -
1. Build lots of Wonders,
2. Get Monomyth,
3. ....
4. profit!
But I'm not sure how well it works out.

If you beeline Monomyth early, you sacrifice Prosperity or Industry - meaning growth is slow and production is low, so how are you going to get lots of expensive Wonders? Even if you get the tech first, it'll take forever to build them. At that point, you should be looking for cheaper wonders, and at least Xenodrome is cheaper than lots of other options.

If you take Monomyth later, because Knowledge is a much better *second* tier than first, then you can build the Wonders, but you don't have much need for culture any more when you're up to 15 or 17 virtues. Pre-patch Elodie would like it for an extra tech, but not so much any more.

Bottom line, a comparison to Monomyth is not useful for evaluating Wonders, because Monomyth is not a useful strategy.

 

[sprang]

How is this a good wonder at all? 1 xenomass is not that big a deal, and why risk someone or the AI snagging the wonder when you could just build the xeno sanctuary instead?

And 4 culture/turn is uber terrible, hell artists give you 3 in every city just for it existing.

You forget: if you are NOT harmony, then you cant build the XenoSanctuaries because of the Harmony 7 requirement. So Xenodrome nets you get the extra 6 culture that way (bldg + quest). Total is 10 culture/turn for a non-Harmony player, which is not bad.

And yes, Artists are OP. So? The question is not where the first 3 culture come from, or the second (OER), the question is, "what does it take to get another 3 culture after you built all the culture buildings?"
Of course, the answer is "found another city".

 

[Strategist83]

1) Starts thread with bad wonder bashing on a forum where bad wonders are consensus
2) Singles out one of the few wonders - in a game full of bad wonders - that actually isn't bad
3) Attempts to justify choice made, further displaying absence of understanding of balance

- like a boss!

 

[Aimeryan]

1) Starts thread with bad wonder bashing on a forum where bad wonders are consensus
2) Singles out one of the few wonders - in a game full of bad wonders - that actually isn't bad
3) Attempts to justify choice made, further displaying absence of understanding of balance

- like a boss!

To be fair, the virtues of the Xenodrome wonder (heh) are not easily seen at first glance.

 

[Seek]

Perhaps the OP meant New Terran Myth, which is in fact only 4 culture for 750 hammers, on a non-affinity/ring 3 leaf tech (ie, the most expensive in the game), and actually is truly awful?