[Xtended] Early Game

[esvath]

Do you think early game is too slow?

At this moment, the progression of science is as follow (I use military tech but other branches are using more-or-less same pattern):

Warrior Caste (400) --> Soldier Training (1000) --> Weaponry (2500) --> Focused Discipline (8000) --> Immortality (25600)

Usually, on my play tests (Monarch, Human sized map, Normal, 9 civs, game run by AI), at turn 300:

• Average AI civs have 4-5 cities.
  
• Average AI civs have research their tier 3 units. That's Priests, Mages, tier 3 UUs.
  
• Some religious-inclined civs already found the holy cities (Sacred Knowledge level 3).
• Some magically-inclined civs have Mages and can cast level 2 damage spells.

This is exactly the middle of the game.

Personally, I want to shorten the early bit of the game, turn 1-150 are often boring press next turn buttons. My plan is to reduce the cost of early technologies.

Spell research, Sacred Knowledge and Guild costs will stay the same but inadvertently will be faster to research because faster teching will unlock various buildings faster as well and those buildings will contribute to spell research/faith/culture and GPP.

Please vote on the poll and let me know your opinion on this thread!

 

[Jojo_Fr]

Hello. You have right, it's too slow. I voted to halve it. Halving the early techs price.

There are largely enough technologies, and spells to research in this game, to create an early, a mid, a late and a very late game sensation for the player.

 

[Linvega]

I don't mind the early game that much. I looked through my most recent games and by turn 150 I usually have 5-7 cities, so I have enough to do, mostly. On the other hand, having more to do is always neat, so I voted for shaving of 1/3.
Though I'd also like for guild costs to be slightly lower, or at least not increase that fast. I'm hitting philosophy/feudalism LONG before I'm hitting the last guild tech of a line. Guild tech costs just get really excessive if you research several lines.

 

[Calavente]

I will have a discordant thought:

I find that the early techs are ok.
what is harder for me are the 2nd tier (1000) and 3rd tier (2500): those are really expensive for the time they are available, and they often don't really bring real/immediate benefits save for allowing the next techs : 8000 science ! (which is the only one interesting due to the +2)
Often, you'll unlock new units only on 1 or 2 branches, so on 1 to (max) 3 techs out of 19 military techs !

when you have a unit unlocked, the tech is worth it's price... but when there are no units, the tech is too expensive for the benefits it brings (IMO).
(only mounted second tech is ok, as it gives +2str (but you still need to spend 1000 on first tech, so unless you have a unit unlocked in mounted 1 or mounted 2, the investment is too important)

I find that guild techs are all much more interesting by what they allow, and are Cheaper (comparatively).

so depending on civs, hunter 1st tech or second are interesting but all other are too expensive, or conversly, melee is interesting but other too expensive.

In my current svartalfar game, all military techs are too expensives / not worth it atm as the unlocked units are at melee III or archery III or a hero (no further unit) at recon III. so I need 11500 beakers before really gaining some benefits. so I'm pumping beakers into those techs because I know I'll get something later, but currently it doesn't bring benefits.
The hunting grounds help a bit, but are not worth much atm
I have 3 cities (in tundra, with the barbs and all it'll be difficult to get much more), and I'll need to have 3 NOBLE districts, before being able to profite from the "recon thingy that needs 3 barracks which is the only building really worth something in those techs.

 

[Ogi123]

Actually I'm in agreement with Calavente. It must be remembered that standard game length is 690 turns, that's epic not normal speed in normal civ. If we are reducing tech early prices by half then thanks to snowball effect player will finish tech tree 50-100 turns earlier. And yes military techs are bit to expensive for what they bring, here I wouldn't mind reduction.

 

[Jojo_Fr]

If you fear the snowball effect, you can still play with a slower speed game.

But me on Quick speed, I cannot do that.

 

[Nivo]

Am I the only one struggling with barbarians? The first few 100 games all I do is fending off barbs while I try to get a few cities up and running. If I'm lucky I manage to level up my hero enough to deal with them but even them it's tough.

Early game I can't even explore since every single recon unit gets killed within a few turns and therefore not worth building.

And its not like I'm playing at a high difficulty level. Maybe I'm just a bad player but I get the impression I'm missing something here..

 

[esvath]

Am I the only one struggling with barbarians?

Barbarians are more dangerous (and more spam-y) in this modmodmod. I suggest you to create several stacks to attack lairs near your borders. Use adepts to cast spells and soften the barbarians.

Early game I can't even explore since every single recon unit gets killed within a few turns and therefore not worth building.

Early recon units will die. Exploring is dangerous business and either you move cautiously (one tile at a time) to avoid getting attacked by barbarians (but even then, that won't save you from 2-movements Lizardmen) or just see recon as expendable or don't be too aggressive to explore.

Or you can unlock Ranger's Guild, catch some Griffons and use them to scout.

Or use Mind adepts. Floating Eye makes them one of the best explorer in early game!

 

[Nivo]

Well to me they aren't dangerous, they are out of control. The first few 100 turns all I can do it to keep them at bays. Stacks work somewhat but far from always (ice golems are impossible for example).

For me I barely get involved with other civs until late game since just about all I do is killing barbs.

There used to be a option to tone down the barbs, but it's no longer there unfortunately. Not sure if it's possible to get that back?

I do love the mod btw , been playing for years

 

[Psychodad]

I think the tech progression is ok, sure one of the early game goals is to get a science district running, but why not. Making all lvl 1 techs to cheap, makes everyone resaerch this techs first, not specialisating. I like choosing whitch of the first lvl Techs is more important for my opening strategie and have always enough options to build. E.g units to clear the barbs and lvl up. The first 50 Rounds were always done with just a few clicks in civ. Since worker can build most of the improvements in the beginning, there is no need to pop up a new tech every 4 turns.

 

[Ogi123]

If you fear the snowball effect, you can still play with a slower speed game.

But me on Quick speed, I cannot do that.

Quick and other not normal game speeds are problem because of resource yield. Honestly I wouldn't mid reducing normal game length to 500 turns, with corresponding reductions in research/hammer price etc.

 

[Alexej]

I do love to have advantage of more powerfull units provided from tech for more than few turns, with slow research you can enjoy every step in advancing trough tech tree. Progressing too fast is lame and kills epicness in game