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Yet Another Thormod: Civilization III

Discussion in 'Imperium OffTopicum' started by Thorvald of Lym, Jul 20, 2017.

  1. Thorvald of Lym

    Thorvald of Lym A Little Sketchy

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    8,347
    Location:
    A Palace north of Oslo
    Woot's oop everyoone, Ubik the greatest modmaker GAME DESIGNER of all time here with my latest project: the IOT Civ3 Mod!

    I might have started something like this earlier, but that my desktop was out of commission. While I can mod Civ4 in the sense that I know how most of the components work, I have much more in-depth experience with Civ3, and thus actually have a chance at crafting something holistic. To be clear, this does not mean work on the Civ4 mod is shelved.

    The goal of this mod is essentially total conversion. Whereas the Civ4 mod is basically a flavour pack, I want this to have an internal consistency, to feel like its own world. Eras will be named after the 'epochs' of IOT; techs will reflect the evolution of the game rules. Everything that I think can be given an IOT flavour will be flavoured as such. If desired, I'll even look into a dedicated map.

    As most of the (present) IOT crowd cut its teeth on Civ4, I should run down a quick list of salient features, as the two games play quite differently:
    • UBs are not a core component, but can be modded in. While there is no dedicated option for civ-specific improvements, several modders have found ways to implement civ-unique buildings through 'phantom tech' (described below). Note that unlike Civ4 these are not replacements to existing improvements, but standalone additions.
    • Units have separate Attack and Defence strengths. In Civ4, units have a base strength modified by specific bonuses and veterancy upgrades. In Civ3, Attack and Defence are separate stats and largely immutable. Veterancy exists in the form of bonus hitpoints, which increases the number of combat rounds the unit can take before defeat.
    • Unit lines are more flexible. Whereas in (base) Civ4, you have a common line of units with one or two civ-specific variations, in Civ3 it is not just possible but easy to create entire civ-unique arsenals. This is helped immensely by the sheer volume of available sets in the Download DB, which currently numbers over eight thousand packages.
    • Artillery is ranged, and capturable. Whereas Civ4 had to wait for dedicated mods, Civ3 has built-in support for ranged bombardment, which is tracked as a separate combat stat. Additionally, units with 0 ATK/DEF can be captured intact, provided the capturing civ has the unit's prerequisite tech (otherwise it's destroyed). Units can also have a special "Enslave" ability that has a chance of capturing defeated enemies as predetermined unit(s).
    • Stealth attacks. In the Civ4 Stack of Doom, an attacking unit is automatically matched against the strongest counter to it. In Civ3, units are ordered in terms of absolute strength, with the strongest standing unit at the top of the stack. Originally used for submarines, stealth attacks allow an attacker to bypass the rank-order and target specific units within the stack (i.e. transports) that are weaker and/or more strategically important. Valid stealth-attack targets can be individually tailored to the unit, i.e. snipers can only target leg infantry, AT can single out tanks, &c.
    • Tech trees can be custom-tailored. All default technologies are classified within one of four Eras, which determines their location on the Science Advisor screen. Techs given no Era cannot be researched, but can be used as prerequisites to 'placed' techs; modders have used this to give civilizations partially- and sometimes fully-customized tech trees inaccessible to other players.
    • Espionage is all out-of-pocket. Unlike both Civ2 and Civ4, espionage is not done with units but executed through a dedicated screen. Missions are essentially 'purchased', with success odds dependent on how much cash you're willing to dole out.
    • Barbarians are dumbed down. Unlike Civ2 and Civ4, barbarians are permanently nomadic and cannot capture cities or establish their own faction. They are also limited to three types of unit throughout the whole game (2 Land, 1 Sea).
    • The UN is only a victory condition. Granted, this was the first game in which it was implemented as an actual international mechanic, but literally its only purpose is for the World Leader victory condition.
    • Regicide is a thing. One of Civ3's unique minor victory conditions, 'Regicide' places a 'king' unit at the civ's starting position—if the king dies, you lose the game. (There's also Mass Regicide, which multiplies the number of king units.) These 'king' units are special in that they cannot be built but can be upgraded, and will always be placed at the bottom of a combat stack as described above. Modders have exploited this to make them 'hero' units in custom scenarios, most notably in the Escape from Zombie Island series.
    • Mountains can be used. They don't produce much even when mined, but they can be traversed. There are also options to restrict certain units' mobility over certain terrain types, i.e. forbidding tanks from crossing a swamp without an existing road.
    • Pollution manifests on the map. Civ4 unhealthiness manifests within the city itself, and can trigger Global Warming, but is otherwise ethereal. In Civ3, pollution overflow directly affects the map by penalizing tile output until cleaned up. Pollution can also be triggered by volcanic eruptions that can even destroy neighbouring cities outright.
    • Corruption impacts production. Hard. City maintenance in Civ4 makes expansion expensive, but individual cities remain productive. This was a response to Civ3, where it's basically the opposite: the corruption system directly penalizes a city's total production and revenue, to the point that far-flung border towns are virtually stagnant, even with large population. Available improvements in the base game barely mitigate this, so several modders have adopted the practice of adding the 'courthouse' trait to additional buildings.
    The lynchpin to how this mod develops is the factions involved. Playable civilizations are hard-capped at 31 total, which means short of fracturing this project into a set of submods, we'll need to pick our player base.

    Omega124 compiled this list of most active/notable/historically relevant IOTers, which barring any opts-out I'm prepared to adopt as the official roster:

    1. Omega124
    2. Civ'ed
    3. KaiserElectric
    4. Terran Empress
    5. NinjaCow64
    6. Thorvald of Lym
    7. Tolni
    8. Sonereal
    9. Taniciusfox
    10. Tyo
    11. hoplitejoe
    12. Aliedhoo
    13. Reus
    14. Crezth
    15. Nuka-sama
    16. Red_Spy
    17. mechaerik
    18. christos200
    19. e350tb
    20. CivGeneral
    21. CivOasis
    22. DaemonDD
    23. JamesCaesar
    24. Seon
    25. taillesskangaru
    26. SamSniped
    27. Double A
    28. Bair_the_Normal
    29. Decamper
    30. Angst
    31. Jackelgull​

    If you're interested, here's the basic scheme for what I'll need as a signup:
    Faction name (full): i.e. Cossack Caliphate of al-Andalus
    Citizen shorthand: i.e. Andalusians
    Adjective: i.e. Moorish
    Bonuses: Default 2 per civ, hard-coded from the following list:
    Spoiler :
    Agricultural: +1 food in city centre +1 food from irrigated desert; Aqueduct, Recycling Center, Solar Plant cheaper to build.
    Commercial: Bonus commerce in Level 2 and 3 cities; lower corruption; Marketplace, Bank, Harbor, Airport, Stock Exchange, Commercial Dock cheaper to build.
    Expansionist: Starts with special Scout unit (defined in game rules), and goody huts are less likely to trigger barbarians.
    Industrious: Bonus production in Level 2 and 3 cities; workers complete tasks faster.
    Militaristic: Units more likely to gain veterancy; Barracks, Walls, SAM Site, Coastal Fortress, Harbor, Civil Defense cheaper to build.
    Religious: Reduced Anarchy interval during revolution; Temple, Cathedral cheaper to build.
    Scientific: Free technology on era advancement; Library, University, Research Lab cheaper to build.
    Seafaring: Civ starts along the coast, and bonus commerce in coastal cities; +1 sea movement, ships less likely to be lost at sea; Coastal Fortress, Harbor, Offshore Platform, Commercial Dock cheaper to build.
    A civ's bonuses also control what Wonders will trigger a Golden Age.
    Leader: The name of the leader.
    Title: The "official" title of the leader. This is mainly used in diplotext.
    Leader portrait: Min. 200x240px, or an existing animated leaderhead. Can provide up to four portraits (one per era).
    Favourite Government: Government type the AI will adopt at the earliest opportunity.
    Shunned Government: Government type the leader despises, affects AI relations. This does not prevent the player from choosing it.
    Aggression Level: 1–5, how militaristic the AI behaves. As per Civilization tradition, the lowest level is a Trojan Horse, and used by France and India in the base game.
    Team colour: Two of the following from this palette, one as primary, and one as a backup if it conflicts with another player's choice:
    Spoiler :
    Cities: ~30–40 optimal.
    Military Leaders: ~6 names for Great Generals.
    Scientific Leaders: 3+ for Great Scientists
    Build Often: What sort of units and improvements the AI should prioritize, i.e. what's the civ's general strategy. Available categories:
    Spoiler :
    Offensive Land
    Defensive Land
    Artillery
    Settlers
    Workers
    Naval
    Air
    Growth
    Production
    Happiness
    Science
    Wealth
    Trade
    Explore
    Culture
    General strategy: This is where you get to be creative. Describe your (IOT) play style, your aesthetic, yourself, in as much detail as you want. Again, this mod isn't about a couple of shout-outs here and there—I want each faction to feel unique, and to play unique, and frankly, even out of that Top 31 I feel I can confidently model maybe one-third of you to something approaching accuracy. N.B.: This section is to help me figure out unit lines, and if I get to them, unique buildings and special techs. The A.I. is nowhere near as customizable as Civ4, and excepting culture groups (whose role I haven't decided yet) all relevant inputs are listed above.

    Help me, help you.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2019
  2. Reus

    Reus Polar Bear

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2013
    Messages:
    972
    Location:
    Devon Island
    Oooooh I'm relevant!

    ===​

    Faction name (full): Order of Nosdracha
    Citizen shorthand: Nosdracha
    Adjective: Nosdrach
    Bonuses: Agricultural, Scientific
    Leader: Reus
    Title: Supreme Leader
    Leader portrait:

    (Click for enlarged version)
    Favourite Government: Fascism
    Shunned Government: Anarchy (or Communism since Anarchy isn't really a choice)
    Aggression Level: 3
    Team colour: Dark Red/Yellow
    Cities:
    Spoiler :
    Jakarta
    Surabaya
    Bandung
    Medan
    Bekasi
    Semarang
    Tangerang
    Depok
    Palembang
    Makassar
    Batam
    Pekanbaru
    Bogor
    Bandar Lampung
    Denpasar
    Malang
    Samarinda
    Tasikmalaya
    Banjarmasin
    Balikpapan
    Serang
    Jambi
    Cimahi
    Pontianak
    Surakarta
    Manado
    Mataram
    Cilegon
    Yogyakarta
    Ambon
    Kupang
    Palu
    Bengkulu
    Cirebon
    Sukabumi
    Jayapura
    Kendari
    Pekalongan
    Pematang Siantar
    Sorong
    Binjai
    Palangkaraya
    Dumai
    Kediri
    Tegal
    Padang Sidempuan
    Banda Aceh
    Ternate
    Probolinggo
    Lubuklinggau
    Banjarbaru
    Tarakan
    Bitung
    Tanjung Pinang
    Batu
    Gorontalo
    Banjar
    Madiun
    Lhokseumawe
    Pasuruan
    Salatiga
    Singkawang
    Prambulih
    Tanjung Balai
    Langsa
    Palopo
    Pangkal Pinang
    Metro
    Tebing Tinggi
    Bima
    Bau-Bau
    Manokwari
    Parepare
    Blitar
    Gunungsitoli
    Pagar Alam
    Bontang
    Mojokerto
    Magelang
    Payakumbuh
    Kotamobagu
    Bukittinggi
    Sibolga
    Merauke
    Sungai Penuh
    Tomohon
    Tidore
    Pariaman
    Subulussalam
    Tual
    Solok
    Sawah Lunto
    Padang Panjang
    Sabang

    Military Leaders:
    -Katy Perry
    -Taylor Swift
    -Kate Upton
    -Nina Agdal
    -Cara Delevingne
    -Emma Watson
    -Alex Morgan
    -Alexandra Daddario
    -Zooey Deschanel
    Scientific Leaders:
    -Carl Sagan
    -Richard Dawkins
    -Michio Kaku
    -Bill Nye
    -Neil DeGrasse Tyson
    Build Often:
    -Worker, Growth, Science, Culture
    General strategy:
    About
    The Order of Nosdracha is an unscrupulous totalitarian state ruled for the most part by its all-powerful Supreme Leader, Reus; a cruel, deceitful, psychopathic monster whom values human beings as much as a toilet paper. The nation revolves around a 'survival the fittest' -esque ideological philosophy best ascribed by their motto: "The Strong Prevails, The Weak Perish". This belief is deeply rooted within the Nosdrach society and dictated the nation's policy, both internally and externally. Administration of the nation is stratified among vigorous state bureaucrats and competing mega-corporations which applies ruthless calculus on daily basis to maximize efficiency and obtain results - mostly successfully, at the expense of the average citizens.

    Political freedom is almost non-existent as positions of power are not obtained through democratic means, but through climbing a contentious corporate ladder like system. Public dissent and demonstration is heavily suppressed and punished - however citizens may lodge non-political complaints discreetly in private to responsible authorities. In spite of this, social freedoms are for the most part, unperturbed.

    Playstyle
    For the most part, the Order allocates its resources to exponentially grow through hardship and min-maxing. A strong emphasis on research and development is also pushed in order to obtain the latest cutting edge technology that helps the maximization of efficiency and profit. On the international stage, the Order doesn't really care with whom they conduct business so long as they're good partners to work with. The Order lacks any honor and loyalty in dealing and only seeks what is good and beneficial for them. Militarily, the Order prefers not to engage at all with stronger or equally powerful opponents and would only prey on the weak, and any attack would involve ruthless shock-and-awe sneak attack with sheer brute force with guaranteed victory as the Order dislikes prolonged conflict that distracts them from focusing internally.

    Unit wise, the Order loves highly mobile forces that can harass the enemy like horses and tanks, and on later eras, air bombers that can flatten enemy lands and turn their precious cities into ashes.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  3. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

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    Damn, there's no cheeky way around the 31 civ limit? What about multiple rulers per civ? Like, would there be a way to make a modular mod for each civ and place them together how the user wants?
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  4. SamSniped

    SamSniped DJ Goodboye

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    5,413
    Location:
    playing some funky jams
    I don't even play Civ3 and i logged into CFC for this lol

    Will fill this in later :goodjob:
     
    Thorvald of Lym likes this.
  5. Omega124

    Omega124 Challenging Fate

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    7,080
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Albany, New York
    Faction name (full): Women's Commune of Abeille
    Citizen shorthand: Abeille
    Adjective: Abeilland
    Bonuses: Industrious and... um...

    well, the culture one is Religious but we all know I'm atheist as hell.

    I can't swim so Seafaring is a lie.

    I'm not capitalist so I'm not Commercial

    I'm not STEMwank either so I doubt Scientific

    And not really into the whole Prussiawank of Militaristic either

    Expansionist could work I guess but sounds a bit imperialistic.

    Agricultural? I got nothing for the second one tbh.
    Leader: Megan
    Title: Forewoman
    Leader portrait: I'll see if someone will make a Lucina portrait for me >:3
    Favourite Government: COMMUNISM
    Shunned Government: Fascism
    Aggression Level: 3
    Team colour: Yellow (Third from top) and pink (second from bottom). Yellow and black by themselves reminds me too much of ancap colors for me to be comfortable with them now :\
    Cities: Just use my civ 4 list? :3
    Military Leaders:
    Lucina d'Ylisse
    Yvette Pettigrew
    Lucie Bardot
    Elsa Pott
    Chung Yeong-suk (or Yeong-suk Chung if you prefer western naming conventions)
    Mihaela Şoimescu
    Scientific Leaders:
    Annette Renard
    Emily Lésiane (With apologies to Dem if he wants this little reference removed; he was cool with me using her for XIV though and she is a science nerd)
    Charlotte Montagne
    Okawa Junko (or Junko Okawa again if you prefer western naming conventions)

    Build Often: Air, Culture, Happiness, Production


    General strategy:

    Militaristically, my AI should always be looking into the sky. I have always had a fetish for air power, and I want my AI to properly appreciate that by having an air force that can easily wrest control of the skies and bomb my enemy into oblivion. On land, my peference would still be long range combat, like artillery units, just trying to kill my enemy with as much firepower concentrated in one area as possible. Non-Artillerly land units should emphasize defense over attack, so they can properly defend my big guns on the field. Navy should be dominated by carriers, with some surface escorts to act as screens. Given my rants on chat about how I feel subs are useless weapons of war, it would be kind of cute if I'm unable to build subs altogether (as long as I get proper ASW, of course).

    Domestically, this may sound silly, but I always kind of try to play civ and similar games as benevolently as I can to my virtual citizens. I'm not afraid to go to war, but I don't really seek out conflict either. Instead, I usually try to win by culture, which I'm not sure is a victory condition in Civ 3, but I guess Diplomatic works. Because of this, I want my civ to focus on what I actually focus on when I build: culture and happiness. Try to build a virtual utopia that people would want to live in. Production is also a focus because hammers (or shields in 3 I guess) let you actually build that virtual utopia.

    Also, if there's any way to make my culturewank a bit more secular (I see most of the culture buildings in 3 are religious in nature), that would be nice.

    EDIT: Also, for foreign policy, I ranked myself as level 3 aggressive because I neither really seek out conflicts, but nor do I shy away from an offensive fight if I think it's a Just War. I feel my personality would be very nice but firm. I'd treat my friends well, and I will treat my enemies with extreme prejudice until they are wiped out. I hate backstabbing, so I would like if my AI was loyal, even to a fault. That's not to say that I'm not above subfertage; far from it, I got a reputation in the earlier days of IOT for manipulating espionage mechanics to my advantage, the most notable example being IOTE2, where I became the world's largest power by abusing the espionage mechanics. In fact, my AI should be spying as much as she can, but only against the people she hates.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2017
  6. Thorvald of Lym

    Thorvald of Lym A Little Sketchy

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    Location:
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    ...Yes and no. It is technically possible to add more definitions, but you can have only 31 selectable civs at a time, and every time you want to change that you have to change the .biq file where all the rules are stored. (You'd also have to change the colours to make sure two civs aren't calling the same one, since that can cause the game to scramble everything in unexpected ways.) It may be possible (I'll have to do tests), but it's cumbersome.

    Also, leaders are defined as part of the civ. It's not like Civ4 where they're separate entities.
     
  7. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

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    I think it would be an extremely good idea to do this as that way everyone can be included sort of. :)

    I'll get my application done after I do the Civ4 reapplication (which I am actually almost nearly finished).
     
  8. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

    Joined:
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    Messages:
    8,035
    Gender:
    Male
    Faction name (full): Empire of Forumus-Spama
    Citizen shorthand: Forum-Spam
    Adjective: Spammer
    Bonuses: Expansionist, Religious
    Leader: NinjaCow64
    Title: Prime Minister
    Leader portrait: Just use the one I used for Civ4 for now, I’ll think of something better later.
    Favourite Government: Democracy
    Shunned Government: Fascism
    Aggression Level: 2
    Team Colour: Dark Blue/Normal Red

    Cities:
    Spoiler :

    Canberra
    Spamvalleta
    Spamusalem
    Spartacus-Makassar
    Bloodrock Castle
    Sixth City
    New Thuria
    New Camelot
    Draconis
    Uaenuj
    Belconnen
    Civic
    Gungahlin
    Jerrabomberra
    Majura
    Molonglo Valley
    Tuggeranong
    Weston Creek
    Woden
    Queanbeyan
    Jervis Bay
    Acton
    Ainslie
    Barton
    Braddon
    Campbell
    Deakin
    Dickson
    Downer
    Forrest
    Fyshwick
    Griffith
    Manuka
    Hackett
    Kingston
    Lyneham
    Narrabundah
    O'Connor
    Parkes
    Red Hill
    Reid
    Russell
    Turner
    Watson
    Yarralumla


    Military Leaders:
    Saber
    Archer
    Lancer
    Rider
    Caster
    Berserker
    Assassin
    Ruler
    Avenger
    Alter-Ego
    Mooncancer
    Foreigner

    Scientific Leaders:
    Ada Lovelace
    Charles Babbage
    Alan Turing

    Build Often: Settlers, Workers, Defensive Land, Happiness, Growth, Science

    General strategy: Spam cities until the wheels fall off. Once the wheels have fallen off, make a super happy giant fun time alliance with all the democracies and then blow up all the Fascists/other undemocratic scumbags. After that…aim for a diplomatic victory I guess?

    Military Doctrine: Soviet tactics! Human wave boyos! Heavy focus on extra cheap infantry but shoddy infantry, with most other military units playing a support role to the endless waves of troops. The main exception to this should be a late game infantry unit called a "Servant". They should be extremely expensive to build, but be equally overpowered to compensate. Also make them immune to nukes and other instant-kill effects (if this is possible) because that would be trivial to defeat otherwise. I want a servant to be a foe that makes enemies put on their brown pants, but something that is a sizeable enough investment that defeating one would be a massive blow.

    The navy should have very big, oversized and powerful ships and cheap as chips submarines and nothing in between.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2018
  9. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

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    Is there a limit to the amount of government types we can mod in? I was thinking if we want to go FULL BONKERS we could have a unique government type for each Civ. And how do governments work anyway?
     
  10. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

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    Unsure if there's a limit, but I've seen mods like Age of Imperialism give several states like Russia, the Ottoman Empire, etc. their own governments.

    Governments in Civ 3 are fairly basic. They mostly determine how much corruption you have, how fast your workers work, how quickly your people tire of war, how many units you can support for free, and what you pay for units over that support limit. The settings are made with starting governments in mind, e.g. "Communal" corruption is the signature trait of communism, which causes every city to have the same corruption rate (the implication being that more cities will lead to more corruption).

    Anyway:

    Faction name (full): The Marian Empire
    Citizen shorthand: Marians
    Adjective: Furry
    Bonuses: Industrious, Religious

    Leader: Tanicius Inky
    Title: Emperor
    Leader portrait: TBA
    Favourite Government: Democracy
    Shunned Government: Fascism
    Aggression Level: 1
    Team colour: Black, Pink (closest to the top)

    Cities:

    Spoiler :
    Rome
    Venice
    Naples
    Milan
    Florence
    Genoa
    Turin
    Bologna
    Bari
    Catania
    Verona
    Padua
    Trieste
    Cagliari
    Ajaccio
    Sarajevo
    Zagreb
    Ljubljana
    Tunis
    Malaga
    Ponta Delgada
    Port Said
    Valencia
    Madrid
    Lisbon
    Kinshasa
    Brazzaville
    Libreville
    Lima
    Cuzco
    Arequipa
    Trujillo
    Iquitos
    Chicalyo
    Guayaquil
    Quito
    Cuenca
    La Paz
    Arica
    Bogota
    Medellin
    Cali
    Barranquilla
    Cartagena
    Puerto Ayucucho


    Military Leaders:

    Sombra de Mar
    Ogilvie Maurice Hedgehog
    Sly Cooper
    Bergamo de Danger
    XONES
    Enerjak

    Scientific Leaders:

    Miles Prower
    Ivo Robotnik
    Bentley Cooper
    Jyrras Gianna

    Build Often:

    Trade
    Workers
    Culture
    Air
    Defensive Land Units

    General strategy: My playstyle is primarily focused on building up my economy, with a small but well-positioned and trained military. When it comes to power projection, the navy will often be favored for its role in trade and expansion. I am always looking for more territory (primarily for economic reasons), but I will avoid taking it by force. Diplomacy and cultural defections are the name of the game to acquire contested areas. My military is usually concentrated towards the border, and this means infrastructure must be top notch in order to ensure my forces can quickly race from one part of my territory to another. I will often seek to establish a thalassocracy for the sake of resources, which reinforces my interest in cultural and diplomatic dominance to avoid conflicts.

    My aesthetic is obvious: furries, furries everywhere. The more references to furry pop culture, the better! I will frequently create some form of social democracy, but going full on market socialism is not off the table either. Collective defense is something always of interest to my state, as a means to reduce how much must be spent on a military that stands alone, thus furthering the ability to build a furry socialist utopia.

    I take the libertarian left to its greatest extremes, and any society with me at the wheel is likely to see a massive rollback of any laws that have nothing to do with economics or public order. Polygamy, soft drugs, gambling, the works are likely to be legal.

    For my borderline pacifistic playstyle, it cannot be understated that I am very capable of being sneaky. Let us never forget just how much fun the Third World War in IOT IV was! Most of the time, however, my sneaky behavior is meant to topple antagonistic powers like the Empire of the Rising Sun, or the Thunder Dragon Empire (in Quietly). I ultimately run my foreign policy with a sort of Just War mentality; every state deserves its sovereignty, but I’m going to do what I can to rein in the “bad guys” of the game. I am unlikely to backstab anyone who does not fall in the category of wanton warmonger.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2017
  11. Thorvald of Lym

    Thorvald of Lym A Little Sketchy

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    Location:
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    Not like Civ4, that's for sure. Additional governments can be added; it's just a matter of making them distinct enough to be meaningful.

    Government choice affects several common fields: Corruption, Unit Support, Science Rate, Worker Speed, Assimilation Rate, Draft Limit, Military Police, Resistance, Hurry Method, War Weariness, and Espionage;
    • Corruption, as explained in the OP, affects the efficiency of cities beyond the capital. It ranges from 1–5 (5 being complete shutdown), plus the special 'Communal' setting. There are also hacks to shut it off completely (supposedly an option in the Firaxis editor but did not actually work).
    • Unit Support covers 1) the gold cost per turn for each extant unit, and 2) the number of "free" units, both by default and per city level.
    • Science Rate is a carry-over from Civ2 and is the maximum percentage you can allocate to research (100% for all govts in base game, but used by modders).
    • Worker Speed is how fast workers complete their jobs, calculated in 50% intervals.
    • Assimilation Rate is a percent chance per turn that a foreign national pop will join the host city's nationality (usually 2–4%).
    • Draft Limit: Once the requisite tech is discovered, how many units can be drafted from the population per turn (causes unhappiness).
    • Military Police is the number of garrisoned units that can quell unhappiness (think Hereditary Rule in Civ4).
    • Resistance affects how long population in a captured city at war will oppose the occupier (will not work tiles). This can be both negative (more likely to submit) and positive (more likely to resist), and is calculated separately for each government type. Typically ranges between -5–5.
    • Hurry Method is, as the name implies, how you can hurry production: N/A, forced labour (Civ4 Slavery), paid labour (Civ4 Universal Suffrage).
    • War Weariness is how long the population will tolerate a war before becoming unhappy, especially if you're the aggressor, and only ends once peace is reached. Ranges from None, Low, High.
    • Espionage covers several components: the veterancy of Diplomats and Spies (ups success odds, lowers cost), immunity (if any) to a specific spy action, and per-government propaganda modifiers (affects likelihood of a garrisoned unit to defect, thereby flipping the city to you).
    There are also several special flags, mostly used for specific governments:
    • Requires Maintenance: Enables/disables improvement maintenance costs. By default, this is only ever not checked for Anarchy.
    • Tile Penalty: Caps food and production output at 2 per tile.
    • Trade Bonus: Provides +1 commerce in every city tile.
    • Xenophobic: Blocks a city's culture generation until at least half the population is the controller's nationality.
    • Forced Resettlement: "Relocates" (removes) 1 pop per city level both when the government is chosen, and when conquering foreign cities.
    Here's a quick run-down of the default governments:
    Spoiler :
    Anarchy
    Triggered whenever switching governments. Worker speed halved. All units and buildings free from upkeep, but city production shuts down.

    Despotism
    Default starting government. High corruption, forced labour, tile penalty. 4 free units per city. Draft and MP limit 2 units. Propaganda penalty v. everyone but Anarchy.

    Monarchy
    Moderate corruption, paid labour. Unit support 2/4/8 per city. Draft limit 2, MP 3. Propaganda bonus v. Anarchy & Despotism, penalty v. everyone else.

    Communism
    Communal corruption (evens out between all cities), forced labour. Unit support 6 per city. Draft limit 2, MP 4. Veteran spies. Propaganda bonus v. Anarchy & Despotism, penalty v. Republic, Democracy.

    Republic
    Low corruption, paid labour. Unit upkeep 2 instead of 1, support 1/3/4 per city. Draft limit 1. Low war weariness. Trade bonus. Propaganda bonus v. everyone except Democracy.

    Democracy
    Minimal corruption, paid labour. Worker speed 150%. No unit support. Draft limit 1. High war weariness. Trade bonus. Immune to propaganda; propaganda bonus v. everyone.

    Fascism
    Low corruption, forced labour. Double worker speed. Unit support 4/7/10 per city. Draft limit 2, MP 4. Veteran spies. Xenophobic, Forced Resettlement. Propaganda penalty v. everyone but Anarchy, Despotism.

    Feudalism
    Moderate corruption, forced labour. Unit upkeep 3 instead of 1, support 5/2/1 per city. Draft limit 2, MP 3. Low war weariness. Propaganda penalty v. everyone but Anarchy, Despotism.
     
  12. GenMarshall

    GenMarshall High Elven Ghost Agent

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2002
    Messages:
    43,222
    Location:
    New Suramar City, Vekta, United Terran Systems
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2017
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  13. Terran Empress

    Terran Empress Hornet

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,024
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Hallow Nest
    Faction name (full): Terran Empire
    Citizen shorthand: Terran
    Adjective: Terran
    Bonuses: Expansionist, Industrious
    Leader: Terra
    Title: Comrade - Empress
    Leader portrait: I'll find this later
    Favourite Government: Communism - may change if more governments are modded
    Shunned Government: Fascism - May change if more governments are modded
    Aggression Level: 1–5, how militaristic the AI behaves. As per Civilization tradition, the lowest level is a Trojan Horse, and used by France and India in the base game.
    Team colour: Dark red - 12th down, Light Red - 2nd down
    Cities: ~30–40 optimal. (Later)
    Military Leaders: ~6 names for Great Generals. (Later)
    Scientific Leaders: 3+ for Great Scientists (later
    Build Often: Growth, Production, Workers, Settlers, Artillery
    General strategy:

    Military:
    Land: Mostly Defensive and artillery. I am an artillery spammer, I like to kill the enemy before they even get a chance to get close. I am rarely agressive unless I 1. Have an ally 2. vastly outgun the enemy, or 3. a combo of the two, wars are often too difficult or costly for me in games, but I will gladly engage in offensive warfare if it will put me in a better position in the long run or save my people from a longer drawn out conflict later. I am seriously emphasizing the Artillery spam, seriously, I want anyone fighting the Terran Empire to basically deal with a hell rain of artillery shells. Air wise should consist primarily of support units, keep air superiority and light bombing runs, but in general I prefer ground artillery to aircraft. Like Megan my military should primarily be defensive to protect cities and artillery, but unlike Megan we should be more likely to go on an offensive war and use our military to spread the Empire.
    Sea: Naval wise I don't usually build a navy, however when I do I usually like submarines actually, unlike Megan i'm a fan of the wolfpack style of submarine warfare, and essentially if I engage in naval warfare, the goal is to stop anyone else from using a naval advantage against me, punch above my naval weight class essentially. If I do get more into naval, more battleship focus due to its artillery nature with a few supports to get rid of enemy submarines. Aircraft carriers are expensive.

    Domestic:
    I have always played IOT as a state that focus primarily on peaceful expansion, internal politics, and industrial growth. This should be my number one priority. Build up my state to be an economic powerhouse that can out produce almost everyone else. I'm not sure how we can focus on the internal politics, but I'm also with Megan, my state should be very benevolent to my citizens and make a good utopic place to live in with high production. Unfortunately there isn't a really good way to represent workers control of the MoP but yeah, the Terran Empire should be focused on expansion, production, and being a good place to live.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  14. NinjaCow64

    NinjaCow64 Thought Bubble Thinker Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2010
    Messages:
    8,035
    Gender:
    Male
    I was just thinking of how this game was meant to represent IOTer history and, as an amateur IOTer historian I thought I'd give my $0.02 (Australian) on eras. There are a few assumptions I am making, such as that there is a maximum of four eras. Also note that there is a little bit of bias towards the later areas and yes I know that some of it is a little egotistical.

    Early Era (a.k.a The Numbered Era): This represents the earliest era of IOTing, Alter Maps and the very first IOTs. I know the least about this era because I wasn't around for that, I would need some input from some of the original gangster IOTers that were around then. I guess this era would transition away once non-numbered IOTs started to be hosted, transitioning into...

    Post-Numbered Era: This era represents a veritable golden age of IOT. So many events happened in this era that I would probably break it into multiple eras if there were more eras. Many prolific GMs such as Tani, Sonereal and LH came into their prime during this era. We got our own subforum. The first chatroom was built. Spreadsheets started to become a thing. Relations with NES was mostly positive. While the transition to the next era isn't as obvious, if I had to pin down an event then it would be the start of the Mosher administration of chat. This unfortunately led into the...

    Dark Age of IOT: I feel at some point we entered a creative slump/the doldrums. Many of the more prolific GMs disappeared and most games were short lived, low effort or completely stillborn. The IOT meta was pretty bad as well, relations with NES were at the lowest they have ever been, Chatango was ruled by the iron and arbitrary fists of the Mosher cabal, multiple people were going through massive edgelord phase (myself included) or had other personal problems and generally the community was fairly toxic. The era wasn't all bad, IOT XIV was hosted during this time which is still considered by many people to be the best IOT ever. I think we started to move out of this era when we en masse abandoned Mosherchat for the NinjaCow64 Chatango. Yeah I know, egotism, but I honestly think that it was more of a symptom that we were changing than being the cause (i.e we changed so much that we weren't willing to put up with the dumb things happening on Mosherchat anymore).

    Modern Era: Things started to look up after the migration to Mosherchat. IOTs began to become more stable and long lived, more IOTers gave GMing a try, old IOT GMs returned from hiatus, newcomers such as Decamper made a huge splash and "...a small but productive faction [of NESers fragmented] to the IOT forum.". NES sort of imploded at this point and I think we just collectively decided to end our silly bickering. We moved to Discord, which is so much better than Chatango mechanically. Lots of really great IOTs are being run and projects such as the Civ4 and Civ3 mods are picking up steam. Things are looking better than they have for years, IMO.

    As an aside, I think the various chatrooms should be wonders (SonIOT, Mosherchat and Discord) with perhaps a fourth chat being the UN analogue (i.e whoever wins the vote becomes the moderator of Discord for all eternity).

    Please give me thoughts and opinions on these ideas.
     
  15. Terran Empress

    Terran Empress Hornet

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Messages:
    2,024
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Hallow Nest
    @NinjaCow64 , I like that, however I think i would switch up the timeline a bit, Perhaps we should make XIV as the event that ended the Dark Age, now post XIV wasn't great, but i think it helped inspire a lot of new games, i'm trying to spread out the timeline a bit more to be a little more even, but I cannot give exact years of these eras unfortunately.

    I think I entered late Post Numbered or early Dark Age tbh, so i don't know much. Also Perhaps we should have SonIOT, Mosherchat, NinjaTango, and finally Discord - so Discord would be the final "UN" wonder, but everything else would be the inferior chatango chats. I throw in Ninjachat cuz i agree with you, that once we left the toxcity of the arbitrary mosher chat for ninjachat it got better, and it would make more sense IMO to have the superior Discord server to be the final UN, while throwing in your own chat.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017
  16. Thorvald of Lym

    Thorvald of Lym A Little Sketchy

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2005
    Messages:
    8,347
    Location:
    A Palace north of Oslo
    There is indeed a fixed four-era limit. Some mods use fewer, but you can't add more.

    My skeleton outline is: Classical AgeTanipolaritySonerealism → [Pax Discordia?], representing the rough evolution of the games' design and community memes culture. As part of the aforementioned Custom Unit Lines, I'm prepared to shake up the tech tree in big ways: air units could be a thing as early as Era 2 (or even late-stage 1!), most of the economic improvements unlock in Age 3... hell, we could even do tiered nukes. :mischief:

    lawl I should totes do this

    Speaking of, I'm wondering what we could use for the Spaceship... :think:
     
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  17. JamesCaesar

    JamesCaesar People-Vulture

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2011
    Messages:
    793
    Location:
    Oregon
    expect something soon
     
  18. Tani Coyote

    Tani Coyote Son of Huehuecoyotl

    Joined:
    May 28, 2007
    Messages:
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    Gender:
    Male
    Communism in Civ III is based heavily on Stalinist/Maoist totalitarian states, so... I'd definitely go for "Democracy" barring creation of new governments. :p
     
  19. gay_Aleks

    gay_Aleks communism will win.

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2013
    Messages:
    10,791
    Location:
    Nightvale, US
    Fully Automated Luxury Queer Communism!
     
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  20. Ailedhoo

    Ailedhoo wonderer

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    7,785
    Faction name (full): Ream Dhoo
    Citizen shorthand:
    Dhoon
    Adjective: Dhoonish
    Bonuses: Scientific (representing my acedemic intrigues), Seafearing (must... have... isles...)

    A civ's bonuses also control what Wonders will trigger a Golden Age.
    Leader: Aile Dhoo
    Title: Ree
    Leader portrait: to be added
    Favourite Government: democracy
    Shunned Government: fascism (if not in game have theocracy here instead)
    Aggression Level: 3
    Team colour: dark green/dark purple
    Spoiler Cities :
    Moddey Dhoo
    Glastyn
    Cardee
    Rhumsaa
    Purt Maayl
    Keeill Dhoo
    Agglish Heyr
    Troyn
    Arree Doghys
    Gansey
    Ynnyd Casherick
    Droghad Balley Glionney
    Keeill Aile
    Cayr Deeth
    Broogh Jiarg
    Purt Illiam
    Purt Artur
    Purt Meslyn
    Purt yn Ellen
    Purt Magnus
    Balley Killey
    Magher yn Edd
    Pairk Yuan Jiarg
    Ard Bane
    Baase
    Scaanoar
    Stashoon Aile
    Purt Chaggee
    Purt Gial
    Seiyder
    Ruy Gobbagh
    Bowe Jiarg
    Purt Gorrym
    Purt Ghlass
    Purt Treishteil
    Cronk y Chaitnys
    Rein-Phost
    Yn Keeill dy Eeirey y Kayt


    Note: new in Manx is "nao" and should go at the end; for instance New York in Manx would be York Noa,


    Military Leaders: Lisa Tolbert
    Finbar Flanagon
    Nikolas Aυγή
    Vinsin Vancore
    Xylon Toto
    Dante Abandonato
    Esther Solomon

    Scientific Leaders: Vladimir Orzov
    Charles Kwan
    Electronic Command Unit (E.C.U.)
    Gabriela Teutoburg
    Kaja Ljunggren
    Takis Papadakis
    Heagal von Hisenberg

    Build Often: Naval, Air, Artillery, Worker, Production, Science and Defensive Land. Will also take the opportunity to expand with settlers but only if economically healthy.
    General strategy: erratic as possible; may go defensive and pacifist one day, the other game may end up going the Imperium of Manx. A constant notion though will be focus to expand by use of the seas if possible.

    Continuing in progress
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2017

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