Yoda's "there is no try", wisdom or BS?

[Narz]

There's a famous Yoda quote from some star wars film (not sure which) where is says something like "do or don't do, there is no try"

To me this is nonsense. No one can control whether or not they succeed, all you can control is whether you make the effort (try), all you ever have is your attempt.

 

[Zardnaar]

It was a motivational type speech.

 

[r16]

it is Star Wars specific . Learn to trust the Force , surrender to it with total commitment because when 501st starts shooting at you for real you will be dead with "Oh, l had a vision of those guys shooting me in the face so maybe l will wave my lightsaber in that direction." Luke Skywalker is a Skywalker , Force is strong with the family , doubts and suspicions kept Luke out of harm's way on Tatooine but it is no longer relevant by Empire Strikes Back . lf this real world had lightsabers and the Force it would no doubt will be really relevant but we mortals need to try to see/know if we can do or we can't .

 

[tjs282]

It's ESB, and (IIRC) it's when Yoda is explaining to Luke about the power of self-confidence when using the Force.

Luke says (doubtfully) "I'll try..." (to lift his X-wing out of the swamp)

And Yoda says "No, try not. Do, or do not. There is no try"

So Luke duly 'tries', fails, and then Yoda does it.

Luke says: "I don't believe it".

And Yoda says, "That is why you fail".

So no, not BS. At least, not in that context.

(Yoda-Fanboi over here, sorry... )

Here in the real world, the point is that yes, you can either succeed at something or not, but in order to have any chance of succeeding, you have to, on some level, believe that you can do it in the first place. Otherwise you might give up too soon, and thus fail. The video you linked actually shows that quite nicely, I think

(That was seriously cute, BTW: I felt like cheering as well when she finally nailed the jump.)

 

[Josu]

What I undertstand from this quote is that whenever you are going to do something you have to do it convinced, not as a try.

I have always applied it in my life, with up and down succed, because it is an attitude, not a method

 

[r16]

not fully relevant but fighter pilots , especially in the past required the same mentality or what . lt is too fast to think , this dogfight business . You should have exercised a lot before joining the action , definitely believing that you can prevail . Suspect yourself and you will be looking for more chances to get away , while shooting the enemy planes happens to be a quite useful method of getting away . Do and fight with a belief and commitment to win . Do not and keep yourself safe . Trying will most probably will get you killed , like a lot of expense , too .

 

[red_elk]

The girl is obviously motivated to do it, not just to try.
Nice video, made me smile

 

[amadeus]

Muppets are not a vehicle for wisdom dispensing once one reaches adulthood.

 

[EgonSpengler]

No one can control whether or not they succeed, all you can control is whether you make the effort

That's what the quote means. It's not about the result, it's about the effort. Control the part you can control, or don't. There was a Robin Williams line in Dead Again. "Everybody's either a smoker or a non-smoker, there's no in-between. People who say they're 'trying to quit' are just [wimps] who can't commit." Something like that. As already pointed out, it's 'junior varsity' wisdom. But that doesn't mean there isn't something to it.

 

[Phrossack]

His point was that Luke was not trying to succeed, but trying to try. If you merely try to try, you will probably fail. You have to do something with the intent to succeed.

 

[uppi]

Dynamic moves in climbing almost aways require you to commit to a move. Either you make it or you fall down. If you think the latter will happen and try to do the move in a 'safe' way, you will often jump away from the wall in an almost comical manner which has no chance to get even near the next hold.

 

[Gori the Grey]

It's BS. But it's fun, Star Wars BS.

 

[Farm Boy]

Muppets are not a vehicle for wisdom dispensing once one reaches adulthood.

Somebody hasn't watched enough muppets. Go back to Sesame Street, or Mr Rogers and his puppets, sometimes.

 

[Angst]

It's somewhere between standard fatalism/determinism and a motivational poster. Probably both and nothing else.

I'm a metaphysical determinist myself and a big fan of fatalism, while a believer in the practice of free will. I guess I fall under compatibilism. Free will is what we experience and judge by in life, so even if free will is an illusion, it's still our reality. Arguing for determinism has no real consequence in daily life. If a murderer couldn't help whether they killed someone, them being put into jail is still part of the no free will equation. It's just another reaction in the system. As such, arguing for determinism has little practical use. It is relevant that a lot of our choices are influenced by forces we can't control. The aforementioned murderer is different from me in that there are conditions that may have lead them to do the act. Understanding this prevents more murders. Anyhow, fatalism, actions are actions and trying to make nuances and possibilities between the two is denying the fact that it happened or not, it's speculation. But a single line from a fantasy scifi movies doesn't really encompass how interesting this stuff is. There's a bunch of logical equations that make fatalism really interesting and Yoda doesn't really captivate its complexity. It was also, yes, a motivational poster for Luke more than anything else. Star Wars contains some interesting references to really good philosophy, but mostly it's spectacle that The Rebels Can Do It! Its world isn't really that deep.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Yoda talks a lot of nonsense. Like the "fear leads to anger leads to hate" thing, or whatever it was, where you can change the order of the words to anything you like and it's equally true/nonsensical.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Muppets are not a vehicle for wisdom dispensing once one reaches adulthood.

Somebody hasn't watched enough muppets. Go back to Sesame Street, or Mr Rogers and his puppets, sometimes.

Statler and Waldorf, at least.

 

[warpus]

The point of the quote is that you don't half-arse your attempt, you full-arse it. When you don't put 100% effort into something, yoda would say that is "trying". But when you really put all your effort and mind into something, that's not trying, that's doing.

I completely agree that the road to success is usually paved with a bunch of failures.

 

[Lexicus]

Muppets are not a vehicle for wisdom dispensing once one reaches adulthood.

"Wars not make one great."

 

[Narz]

Arguing for determinism has no real consequence in daily life. If a murderer couldn't help whether they killed someone, them being put into jail is still part of the no free will equation. It's just another reaction in the system. As such, arguing for determinism has little practical use.

Not sure that's true. Realizing the world is detirministic can cause you to take bold steps to prevent childhood trauma which is one of the top predictors of criminality later in life.

You still may need to lock up murderers but by realizing cause & effect you can prevent people from going down dark paths in the 1st place.

 

[Lohrenswald]

It was a motivational type speech.

His point was that Luke was not trying to succeed, but trying to try. If you merely try to try, you will probably fail. You have to do something with the intent to succeed.

just struck me now how this is like yet another thing on the pile of stuff mentioned in star wars that's taken to be a universal normative statement instead of something some person say in one given context